Low-IQ Empathy

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I never let my players see their sense rolls, I roll for them. That way, they do not know if I am telling the truth or lying.

That's... not a response to anything anyone was saying? No one was saying that there was an issue because players can see their rolls and know whether or not you're lying. They said there was an issue because in this case, they don't think a simple failure should mean the GM lies.

[coronatiger]

We use a house rule that says that advantages like Sensitive roll against a flat 12. Since the advantages don't cost differently for characters with different base stats, they should be equally useful, independent of (e.g.) IQ. If you want a higher chance of success, buy an improved version of the advantage, like Empathy, or get a power talent.

[weby]

In such situations I would go either with the "based on Per" as suggested by others, use based on a skill or use reliable.

All three suit some situations but give different feels.
Based on per is a "I can see that something is wrong"
Based on skill is a "By my long experience as a detective/whatever I can sense that something is wrong"
Reliable is a "I am just such a strong mentalist that I know that something is wrong"
The default IQ is a "based on your actions/words, I can deduce that something is wrong".

So they all work in different situations.

[Kromm]

If you want to completely avoid house rules, creative interpretations, etc. and have something that works in any "official" campaign regardless of the GM's biases, add Reliable to taste. Reliable +4, +20% will raise the cost of Empathy by all of 3 points and make the roll IQ+4; Reliable +8, +40% will cost a whopping 6 points and make it an IQ+8 roll, at which even a lizard is likely to succeed with some regularity.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Kromm

If you want to completely avoid house rules, creative interpretations, etc. and have something that works in any "official" campaign regardless of the GM's biases, add Reliable to taste. Reliable +4, +20% will raise the cost of Empathy by all of 3 points and make the roll IQ+4; Reliable +8, +40% will cost a whopping 6 points and make it an IQ+8 roll, at which even a lizard is likely to succeed with some regularity.

What about Sensitive, though? It seems like allowing Reliable on Sensitive would be exploitative, considering you can get Sensitive with Cosmic, No die roll for less than the price of unmodified Empathy.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

What about Sensitive, though? It seems like allowing Reliable on Sensitive would be exploitative, considering you can get Sensitive with Cosmic, No die roll for less than the price of unmodified Empathy.

Of course. That's why everything in GURPS needs to be GM approved.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Of course. That's why everything in GURPS needs to be GM approved.

But my point is that that solution doesn't fully solve the problem, since it still leaves Sensitive giving you the opposite of the truth most of the time, which doesn't make much sense for an advantage.

[TGLS]

Then adapt "skills for everyone" (P162) and make up an Empathy skill. Then they can buy it up high without becoming a super-genius. Or just alter lying on a failure to only critical failures, otherwise smart players will just play contrary. "I only succeed 5% of the time, so I'll treat everything I get from it as a lie."

[Anders]

Power-Ups: Talents has rules for Empathy as a Talent. If you want to mod Empathy heavily I would use that approach and modify the Talent with Reliable.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

But my point is that that solution doesn't fully solve the problem, since it still leaves Sensitive giving you the opposite of the truth most of the time,

Not how I'd play it. The word "lie" does not mean "say the opposite of the truth". Half-truths work much better. Mind you me, I've always considered Sensitive to be intended for very high intelligence characters whose players just want their character's empathy to be less than infallible.