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Old 12-13-2019, 07:59 PM   #21
Shostak
 
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Default Re: How to do Clairvoyance?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
On the other side of a dimension. Not in your current one.
My interpretation is that "across dimensions" includes (but is not limited to) the four dimensions of Space-time. It doesn't make sense to me that Greater Sense Crossroads could be used to communicate with someone in a pocket universe in the absence of an existing gate, but not with someone in the house next door when Lesser Sense could, so long as there was an existing gate or weak spot.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:58 PM   #22
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Learning the system

I have been converting the Mage the Ascension system to RPM, and it works fairly well (much better than the default rules from Mage the Ascension). Lesser effects are equivalent to coincidental magic, greater effects are equivalent to vulgar effects, and botches are equivalent to paradox backlash. Even the rotes tend to work out.

The advantage of using the magical framework of Mage the Ascension is that the Paths tend to make more sense than the default Paths of RPM. The nine Paths are Correspondence, Enthropy, Forces, Life, Matter, Mind, Prime, Spirit, and Time. When it comes to translating effects between the two systems, Chance is Enthropy, Crossroads is divided between Correspondence, Spirit, and Time, Magic is Prime, and Undead is Matter and Life.

Where the RPM rules really shine though is when it comes to ongoing effects, conditional rituals/elixirs, and magical gadgets. Since there is no real penalty for ongoing effects, RPM becomes one of the more powerful magical systems in existence. Paradoxically, since magical gadgets require conditional ritual/elixir slots, as well as CP, it is also balanced when it comes to magical items. I do not really know of another magical system in existence that balances the two extremes so well.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:19 PM   #23
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: How to do Clairvoyance?

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
My interpretation is that "across dimensions" includes (but is not limited to) the four dimensions of Space-time. It doesn't make sense to me that Greater Sense Crossroads could be used to communicate with someone in a pocket universe in the absence of an existing gate, but not with someone in the house next door when Lesser Sense could, so long as there was an existing gate or weak spot.
It's possible I suppose. That's one interpretation. But I don't know if that's how I'd do it. I've always used a Create Effect to create a space where two spots touch for clairvoyance. Expanding it like you suggest could create some weirdness and the Create method is the one PK and I settled on a while back.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:31 AM   #24
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Default Re: How to do Clairvoyance?

Pulling Christopher's reasoning together:

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Wizard Eye: Lesser Control Matter (5) + Lesser Create Crossroads (6) + Lesser Create Matter (6) + Lesser Sense Crossroads (2) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Speed, 10 yds/second (4).*24 energy (241)

However, I don't see what part Crossroads is playing here
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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Crossroads is basically creating a small gate you can see through in the area. And that's one way to do it.
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THe book can't hold everything. This is how I'd do it. You're effectively linking two points together. It's like a gate, but less potent. You can't go through it - that's a Greater effect, thus scrying would be a lesser effect. Of course this is for ONE viewpoint. If you want to be able to move the view around it's a Greater effect.
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… I said using Lesser Create Crossroads would let you create a small one way gate that only allows information to cross - not people or things.
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I've always used a [Lesser] Create [Crossroads] Effect to create a space where two spots touch for clairvoyance. … the Create method is the one PK and I settled on a while back.
So it's Lesser Create Crossroads to create a small and limited one-way "gate" that can only pass information, and Lesser Sense Crossroads to see through it. That does single-viewpoint scrying.

The Wizard Eye version gives you a way to move the gate around, which would otherwise require Greater Create Gate, but imposes limitations: limited movement speed, and a visible sensor.

Is that correct?
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:02 AM   #25
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Default Re: [RPM] Learning the system

Just be sure to keep Control Crossroads to make the gate 1-way.

Or, perhaps cleaner, just go with Greater Strengthen Mind to give the advantage of Clairvoyance from the Basic Set.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:25 PM   #26
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Would is be Greater? I thought Lesser was for any mental ability up to and including those that would require an Unusual Background. Greater is any mental ability unless they explicitly do not exist in the setting.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:41 PM   #27
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Default Re: [RPM] Learning the system

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Or, perhaps cleaner, just go with Greater Strengthen Mind to give the advantage of Clairvoyance from the Basic Set.
That's quite expensive: Greater Strengthen Mind (3), Clairsentience (Clairvoyance, -10%) (45), total 48, cost 144 (48x3).
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: [RPM] Learning the system

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Would is be Greater? I thought Lesser was for any mental ability up to and including those that would require an Unusual Background. Greater is any mental ability unless they explicitly do not exist in the setting.
If the GM allows that advantage, then yes, Lesser looks like it will suit, which means the overall energy cost is not quite so stiff.
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: [RPM] Learning the system

It would probably be ~80 energy for a reasonably useful version. It would still require some expertise though (RPM does not really reward amateurs).
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:57 PM   #30
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Learning the system

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Pulling Christopher's reasoning together:

So it's Lesser Create Crossroads to create a small and limited one-way "gate" that can only pass information, and Lesser Sense Crossroads to see through it. That does single-viewpoint scrying.

The Wizard Eye version gives you a way to move the gate around, which would otherwise require Greater Create Gate, but imposes limitations: limited movement speed, and a visible sensor.

Is that correct?
Right. You're scrying the area around the wizard eye - that's Lesser Create Crossroads. Lesser Sense is linking your vision to it. You wouldn't need that if you wanted to attach it to a scrying source like a bowl or something. Having it all in your head is worth that extra Effect. Lesser Control Matter is letting you move the eye around and Lesser Create lets you move it around. One thing this is missing is Range - that's the max range you can control it out to.

If you wanted more typical scrying whose viewpoint you can move around you'd need just a Greater Effect if it can cover all senses or a Lesser one if it's just sight, hearing, etc. You'll need to add Range and Speed.



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Just be sure to keep Control Crossroads to make the gate 1-way.
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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Or, perhaps cleaner, just go with Greater Strengthen Mind to give the advantage of Clairvoyance from the Basic Set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Would is be Greater? I thought Lesser was for any mental ability up to and including those that would require an Unusual Background. Greater is any mental ability unless they explicitly do not exist in the setting.
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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
That's quite expensive: Greater Strengthen Mind (3), Clairsentience (Clairvoyance, -10%) (45), total 48, cost 144 (48x3).
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If the GM allows that advantage, then yes, Lesser looks like it will suit, which means the overall energy cost is not quite so stiff.
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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
It would probably be ~80 energy for a reasonably useful version. It would still require some expertise though (RPM does not really reward amateurs).
In most cases - as I've noted - this is really not something you want to do. It gets tricky and I suggest to most GMs unless it's something like Regeneration or Damage Resistance to not use Altered Traits willy nilly. For example, it's better to afflict an innate attack instead of having to cast a damaging spell. It doesn't break the system, but it does make things more difficult and weird. Again, I don't recommend it.

What this boils down to is will the GM let it stand. They probably shouldn't/ I talk about this a lot on my blog. Just because the system lets you do something doesn't mean the GM should. You could in theory create thousands of gallons of gas or oil and sell them or use them. Long enough duration means it won't matter after they are processed/used as fuel. It's one of the traps of the system and I wish the book highlighted it more.
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