10-27-2015, 12:41 PM | #11 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
Fuel cells have many wonderful features, but energy density ain't one of them. Hydrogen is also a mega-bear to store unless locked into molecules which messes up its energy density even further.
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10-27-2015, 04:07 PM | #12 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
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This refinery processes water into rocket fuel. A fuel cell produces power by converting rocket fuel to water. Using the original numbers means this setup obviously violates the first law of thermodynamics with the addition of a pipe.
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10-27-2015, 04:32 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
As a side note, the math from the OP is incorrect (and underestimates the amount of perpetual motion going on). A 1 space SM+5 fuel cell will run for 12 hours on 1 space of fuel (i.e. 4x base endurance) and produces 1 EP. 1 space of fuel at SM +5 is, however, 1.5 tons, not 5 tons.
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10-27-2015, 05:20 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
Ah, my bad. I forgot that this was specifically about fuel cells and not fuel in general. Carry on!
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10-28-2015, 08:53 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
So- errata.
Any commentary on the other questions: Quote:
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10-28-2015, 10:03 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
Not exactly - it's more just an issue of the simplification than an outright error in the document (like, say, when the projectile damage was written in Damage rather than dDamage, making them 10x as powerful as they should have been). Probably the ideal solution is to just have certain systems (like factories and refineries) have reduced output when powered by fuel cells.
No rule, but making your own would be fine. Your numbers look fine here; I'm assuming you intend to use the hydrogen as reaction mass? |
10-28-2015, 10:03 AM | #17 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
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People have tried many times to puzzle them out, usually primarily from the beam weapon figures. I think there might be a revealing post from the author somewhere on the forum as well. (Possibly in connection with the beam weapon design Pyramid article instead of Spaceships, but you can work between the two...)
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10-28-2015, 10:51 AM | #18 | |||
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
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Compare that to the other source without numbers: ultratech where the difference between TL 9 and TL 10 is *10 and the addition of ^ to the fusion plant multiples by *5 again and the TL 9-12 is *100(the same for TL 9-11^) Also there you need *50 the mass to produce the same energy with solar panel than TL 12 antimatter. But yes, the only "real" numbers we have on power are the beam weapon power numbers in spaceships. The power situation is one of the great annoyances I have with gurps tech supplements. |
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10-28-2015, 11:16 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
...Does this have anything to do with the subject of how much hydrogen you get from electrolysis of water?
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10-28-2015, 11:33 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: [Spaceships] Perpetual Motion?
It would indicate that the output is relative to the mass fraction and the capacity as given for chemical refinery is the input mass, as you were replying to just keeping the hydrogen question.
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