[DF] Puissance

[Anders]

As written, the spell Puissance (p.M65) gives a flat +1, +2 or +3 bonus to basic damage. I think this is too little when compared to things like Weapon Master and plan on changing to +1/die, +2/die, or +3/die. Do you think this is reasonable?

[roguebfl]

First +x/die stuff does not stack, but +1 to damage does.

So changing it to +1/ie makes it worthless to weapon masters.

even on the DF scal +1 to damage is still quite a bit.

[Anders]

I wasn't aware of that. Reference?

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

I wasn't aware of that. Reference?

This should help:

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Damage bonuses like this generally do not stack. So you have two options, both of which fit the rules well enough:

- allow the character to claim the Karate damage bonus only when using the weapon with Karate.
- allow the character to claim the Weapon Master damage bonus only when using the weapon skill.

OR

- allow the character to claim the higher bonus in either case (Karate OR WM when thrusting, WM when swinging).

Neither of them is abusive, both are logical enough. It's a reasonable call either way. Personally I'd do the second, since it's just easier and any PC I'd have to deal with would quickly take both skills high enough to get matching bonuses making which one it comes from irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Right. So since one of the design philosophies in GURPS* is that damage bonuses do not stack unless specifically noted (q.v., Brawling explicitly stating that it stacks with Claws), you have a case of two different damage bonuses (one from Karate, one from WM) to choose from. I'd certainly let the player always use the larger one, if they're not equal, since he did pay for both abilities.

(* Based on the designers' comments as well as the FAQ and a few playtest comments.)

[Anders]

Well, then this thread was a big waste of space.

Apologies.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Well, then this thread was a big waste of space.

Apologies.

It answered your question. That isn't a waste. Nothing to apologize for. Questions are good things!

[Langy]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

First +x/die stuff does not stack, but +1 to damage does.

So changing it to +1/ie makes it worthless to weapon masters.

even on the DF scal +1 to damage is still quite a bit.

This is incorrect. The damage bonuses for Weapon Master and high Karate skill do not stack, sure, but the +2/die bonus for Weapon Master stacks perfectly well with the +1/die bonus from All-Out-Attack (Strong).

Just because it's +1/die does not mean that it won't ever stack. The only case I can think of where damage bonuses don't stack is the Weapon Master/Karate situation.

[vierasmarius]

I wouldn't want to make a weapon enchantment that provides a per-die bonus, simply because it would change depending on the strength of the wielder. However, I wouldn't be adverse to an enchantment that has a greater effect on weapons with a large bonus already. Consider the rules for Large weapons: a +1 SM multiplies the damage bonus by x1.5. If you let each level of Puissance (or a new weapon enchantment) have this effect, it would only make a difference with heavier weapons, or when you stack multiple levels. For most weapons it would provide just the normal +1 damage. I don't think it would be too unbalancing.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Langy

Just because it's +1/die does not mean that it won't ever stack. The only case I can think of where damage bonuses don't stack is the Weapon Master/Karate situation.

Nor dose the Boxing nor does the Brawling bonus, you have it around the wrong ways, it's AOA (Strong) that is the exception not the other way around.

as the Rev said the Genera Rule not Stacking, with exceptions.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Nor dose the Boxing nor does the Brawling bonus, you have it around the wrong ways, it's AOA (Strong) that is the exception not the other way around.

as the Rev said the Genera Rule not Stacking, with exceptions.

Right. Weapon Master doesn't stack with any of the unarmed skill bonuses. This is the only time when damage bonuses do not stack, and it's because the unarmed skill damage bonuses are supposed to represent the same thing as the Weapon Master damage bonuses, just for things that aren't weapons.

Can you give any other examples of per-die damage bonuses? The only ones I can think of are the WM, unarmed skill, and AoA bonuses. All others are +(some specific number).

In any case, the Rev's quote isn't specifically about per-die damage bonuses. It's about damage bonuses in general. Are you saying that Puissance shouldn't stack with Weapon Master, Very Fine quality weapons, or anything else?

RPK is simply wrong here. The general rule is that damage bonuses stack, unless they're from the same thing or from things that are meant to be either-or.