06-08-2013, 10:35 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
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I think paradox works fine, no need to bring threshold in. In fact, the syntactic magic chapter in Thaumatology has Distortion Points, which are just paradox with the serial numbers filed off. Certainly you could do a lot with the points it takes to buy Avatar, Arete and Spheres. It might be interesting to see how a PC that is not a mage works out in the campaign. I still think that the flexibility and potential scale of Sphere magic effects lets it stand up favorably to most other potential uses of the points. When it comes to Arete as the generic magick skill, having individual sphere skills is one of the things I like about G:MtA. It allows for more character variety, and distinction between raw potential and control. |
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06-08-2013, 01:21 PM | #12 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
In the two G:MtA campaigns I've played, it was normal to have your Sphere skills at the limit of (10+Arete level). It's quite cheap compared to the cost of Sphere levels if you have decent IQ. EDIT: And having the skills as high as possible was important, given importance of MoS in determining effects. So having a wildcard skill for all spheres would be a useful point saving, but wouldn't have much effect otherwise.
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06-08-2013, 09:30 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
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On the other hand having one skill for all magic effects gives more of a point break to PCs with many spheres in comparison to those with fewer. I did notice that Realm magic from Thaumatology assumes individual skills for each realm. However, it doesn't suggest any kind of cap to those skills, so they are less likely to all end up the same. I think I'll start by keeping individual skills. I'll let players put together characters. Then if they all push their sphere skills up to the cap, I'll replace them with a single Arete skill, and let them redistribute the points. |
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06-09-2013, 01:59 AM | #14 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
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The G:MtA translation used margin of success as a substitute for number of successes in the WW mechanics, and hence made high skills levels very worthwhile. But your players may not realise that straight away. I'd either stay with the G:MtA scheme, or re-think the translation completely. |
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06-09-2013, 10:07 AM | #15 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
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G:MtA had individual sphere skills, and I can think of at least 2 outcomes of doing it that way that I like. 1) Specialists get a slight point advantage over generalists. 2) It allows more diverse characters to be designed, even if they are suboptimal. But if none of my players are interested in designing characters like that, I might as well scrap it and go with a single Arete skill, just to clean up character sheets. Coming back to starslayer's point about the costs of spheres and balance: Quote:
It's interesting that the section on Reactive Reality doesn't mention any point cost effects from using the Distortion Points system. It seems like a significant limitation on the use of magic. Does anyone have insight on the balance issues there? |
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06-25-2013, 06:18 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
Back to thoughts and questions about Distortion Points/Paradox and how it should affect the CP costs. G:MtA has the advantage Immune to Paradox costing 50 points. It is only available to Marauders (and maybe some Technomancers).
I'm thinking about building Mage familiars as Allies. They provide information, can grant skill bonuses, can act as teachers for Spheres, must be fed Quintessence at a rate of 1-5 points per week, and can remove Paradox at a rate between 1 point per day and 1 point per month. Skill bonuses are easy to figure out as "granted by familiar". I'm not sure how to price the effects of Quintessence and Paradox eating on the cost of a Familiar. Using Dependency or Restricted Diet for the weekly Quintessence cost would reduce the point cost to build the Familiar. That might not make a change big enough to make a difference between being 25% or 50% of the PC point total and make a difference in cost to the PC. That seems wrong, because supplying 5 points of Quintessence a week vs 1 point is a major difference to the PC. As for removing Paradox, I'm not sure how to go about pricing a "Remove Paradox" advantage to then put a "granted by familiar" limitation on. |
06-25-2013, 06:30 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
I would look at the Increased recovery and Threshold modiefers in GURP S Thaumatology for a starting point.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
06-25-2013, 03:21 PM | #18 | |
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
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The trick is trying to come up with some equivalence between Threshold and Paradox. In many ways Paradox is less forgiving. There's not much of a margin that PC can let it build up, a backlash can happen when the Paradox total is as low as 4 (rolling a 3 on the backlash roll), whereas even after a threshold is passed, each 5 tally points only adds 1 to the calamity table, and nothing happens on the calamity table if the modified roll is 10 or less. Also there is no automatic reduction of Paradox, Mages have to take paradox flaws to bleed off their total. No Recovery is a 40% limitation to Threshold Magery. |
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06-27-2013, 10:05 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
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O recovery is probably the base line. And you can always rework the Calamity table, its the idea that is useful not the chart. I have redone it for Demonic magic and Divine magic in the past.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
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07-11-2013, 12:28 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
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Re: Updating/recreating GURPS Mage the Ascension to 4ed
I've done a bit more tinkering.
I looked back at some of the new advantages introduced in G:MtA and one converted from WW Mage that wasn't in G:MtA, and have come up with some builds based on GURPS 4ed. Awareness: The first level is more or less just Detect Magic [10]. The second level could be done by adapting the model of Detect Aura from Psionic Powers - Detect (Auras, Analyzing +100%, Analysis Only -50%, Short Range 1 -10%, Vision Based -20%) [36] Combined cost of both levels [46] Destiny: should be replaced with any or a combination of Luck (Aspected), Higher Purpose, or Destiny from 4ed Basic Set. Immunity to Delirium: Unfazeable (Cosmic, +50%; Only on Werewolves' Delirium effect, -50%) [15] Familiar (not from G:MtA, converted from WW Mage.): Build a familiar as an Ally with the Limitation: Pact (Vow - provide 1 Quintessence per week, -10%, 1 daily, 15%) The familiar's ability to eat Paradox would be represented by the advantage from Thaumatology - Rapid Magical Recovery (Granted by Ally -40%), 1 paradox removed per 4 weeks [3], 1 per fortnight [6], 1 per week [12], 2 per week [24]. I'm not sure about the Familiar build. It seems to me that having to supply 1 Quintessence per day should be worth more as a limitation than 15% of the cost of the Ally, but the Pact limitation gives 15% discount for a 15 point Great Vow. I'll see if any of my players go for it, and maybe adjust the cost based on how it works out. |
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