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Old 11-24-2011, 04:36 AM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

Are they the same specialty? On a more general note, how specific do you make your specialties? Gearing up for a DF campaign in Realms and I'm terribly tempted to have a separate specialty of Hidden Lore for each deity. But that way lies madness.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:25 AM   #2
Akicita
 
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

IRL, I would say they don't even default to one another. I could (but, being merciful, won't) go on about various single malts, but I drink box wine.

In DF, or any campaign where this skill wouldn't be important, I would probably treat Connoisseur (Booze) as an all-purpose skill, not worth specializing in unless necessary to the character concept.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

Connoisseur is all about being particular and specific, so I wouldn't make this skill to broad.

(A minor delusional quirk might be more appropriate than too many points sunk in this, though ;) )
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

I assume a Connoisseur specialty will be fairly specific (wine, dogs, pottery, comic books, etc.) but can be broader (books, visual arts, pets, food and drink, etc.). It depends on the character concept.

When in doubt, I assume that if one specialty is arguably a sub-type of another (e.g., Visual Arts and Pottery), they default to each other at -2, the way the Area Knowledge specialties do. This is also roughly how optional specialties for skills like Literature gets treated, so I figured it's balanced.

The more general Connoisseur specialties are better for situations where one is trying to make a good impression, unless it is a meeting of experts, where you might come across as an amateur; it is less useful for buying and selling, as one is more likely to be in a situation where what one really needs is a more specific kind of knowledge (an expert in "pets" will know a lot about cats, but less than an expert in "cats"). It would be all right for someone running a general business, like an upscale pet store where it makes sense to have some knowledge of different kinds of high class pets, breeds, etc. in different species like dogs, cats, tropical fish, etc. A hardcore collector probably needs something more specific, though.

Hidden Lore, I figure, should be by broad categories (spirits, vampires, demons, conspiracy theories, gods, etc.). Having one specialty for each deity is probably too specific...you could, of course, make any individual a technique (an Average one because you're usually looking things up outside of combat)...

IQ 12 [40]
Hidden Lore (Vampires)-12 [2]
Hidden Lore of Dracula-14 [2]

Anyway, I hope all this helps.

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Old 11-24-2011, 08:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgellis View Post
...you could, of course, make any individual a technique (an Average one because you're usually looking things up outside of combat)...
This strikes me as an excellent idea that allows for more flavor on the character sheets of scholar types.

Consider it stolen.

As to the Whiskey/Wine thing, I probably have a Dabbler perk that applies to both, but I agree that they're separate skills without a default.

I would give both a default from Connoisseur (Brandy), however.
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
Are they the same specialty? On a more general note, how specific do you make your specialties? Gearing up for a DF campaign in Realms and I'm terribly tempted to have a separate specialty of Hidden Lore for each deity. But that way lies madness.
Wine and Whiskey have about as much in common as hamburger and filet mignon. Not in terms of quality, but in terms of what connoisseurs like about them.
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Old 11-24-2011, 10:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

Speaking as someone who appreciates wine and whiskey alike, I see no meaningful overlap. The terms used to describe the colors, scents, and flavors of the two differ significantly. The two classes of beverages are in the main made in totally different regions, with distinct issues of climate and culture to consider. Wine knowledge almost inevitably covers food pairings; whiskey is rarely paired, and when it is, it's usually with cigars. Beyond "both are solutions of alcohol and water," there are few similarities.

However, I would say that whiskey knowledge overlaps knowledge of other spirits. I know a great many whiskey fans who are also brandy and rum fans, for instance, and who even compare across groups in tastings. If you're looking for just two skills, Connoisseur (Spirits) and Connoisseur (Wine) would work best. Connoisseur (Booze) would work in a campaign where the skill is merely color, but if it's going to make money for the PC and impress NPCs, then I'd split things at least as finely as I said.

I wouldn't go so far as to charge points for subclasses of the above outside of campaigns that actually revolve around the subject, though. Techniques or even perks would be dubious point sinks, for the most part. The rules for familiarity ought to do for someone with Connoisseur (Spirits) tasting gin or rum after mostly experiencing whiskey, or for someone with Connoisseur (Wine) tasting Tokaji Aszú after mostly experiencing classic French and Italian reds.
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Old 11-24-2011, 11:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

GURPS gets hit with a charge of over specializing/too many skills from it's detractors, This comes from it's compatibility with realism. Kromm makes a good case for separating the two due to realism. I personally think they are tecniques for Connoisseur (Alchoholic Beverages) and let it go at that.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:21 PM   #9
Phaelen Bleux
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akicita View Post
IRL, I would say they don't even default to one another. I could (but, being merciful, won't) go on about various single malts, but I drink box wine.
Aaaaaaiiiiiieeeeeee!!!!!!! Single malts but box wine? You don't need any more proof than that about the skills not overlapping!! :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Speaking as someone who appreciates wine and whiskey alike, I see no meaningful overlap.

However, I would say that whiskey knowledge overlaps knowledge of other spirits.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
Gearing up for a DF campaign in Realms and I'm terribly tempted to have a separate specialty of Hidden Lore for each deity.
Well, maybe not Hidden Lore, but they should each have their own (required) specialty of Theology and Ceremony/Ritual.
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Last edited by Phaelen Bleux; 11-24-2011 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:30 PM   #10
Sam Baughn
 
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Default Re: Connoisseur (Wine) and Connoisseur (Whiskey)

Personally, I wouldn't have thought to use anything much narrower than connoisseur (food and drink) or connoisseur (intoxicants), but several posters make a good case for more limited specialities. I especially like Mgellis' approach of treating it much like area knowledge.
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