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Old 09-17-2011, 04:30 AM   #41
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

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Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
Except the sub-vocalization is a key element in memory retention. Hence why speed readers often do worse on comprehension tests because the often forget the details more often
For audially-dominated people (in terms of language, that is). Which is not everybody.

I suspect that for people who were visually-dominated in terms of language comprehension since childhood, this isn't that much of an issue.

Finally, I suspect that trying to get in information too fast is another reason for poorer retention. It's not like a fast lecture is all that easy to remember either.
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Old 09-17-2011, 04:34 AM   #42
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Default Re: Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
For audially-dominated people (in terms of language, that is). Which is not everybody.
No while dominate style help, but the really key is Multi exposure (three being recommended), and Reading + Sub-vocalization counts as two expostulation, where as the speed reading without it is only one exposure.

While single exposure in you dominate is better than non dominate, but is inferior to double exposure.
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:06 PM   #43
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Default Re: Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I'm a bit surprised about this. Do you mean that there are people who can read with ordinary fluency in their native language who don't do this? Who must put the sounds together from the letters, not just for strange words, but for most words?
I don't know how common it is, but I'd imagine for many of the "Since leaving school, I haven't read anything more complex than the lunch menu" crowd, this is true. Importantly, one's reading speed (in English, anyway) is limited to about 120 WPM until this barrier is broken.

Probably also important to note is that I took this class when I was 13, where sub-vocalization is more common. Ending it was a basic, beginning step.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:24 AM   #44
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Default Re: Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

As far as I know, speed reading depends on being able to read well enough so that it is not necessary to vocalise sounds while doing so. I can speed-read in Icelandic and English, but I can't do so in Danish, Latin, German, Spanish or French. If I need to concentrate to read a text at all, I can't speed-read it.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:58 AM   #45
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Default Re: Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

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As far as I know, speed reading depends on being able to read well enough so that it is not necessary to vocalise sounds while doing so. I can speed-read in Icelandic and English, but I can't do so in Danish, Latin, German, Spanish or French. If I need to concentrate to read a text at all, I can't speed-read it.
I suspect you're conflating two different factors here. One is whether your brain processing actually performs vocalization routines. Other is whether your processing goes on as a conscious skill or a non-conscious one.

I'm not a neuro-scientist of any sort, so I'd better be careful with trying to make a more specific explanation.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:12 AM   #46
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Default Re: Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Kromm’s post (and my reply to nerdvana) doesn't have to do with a RW definition of speed-reading, but how it works in the game.
Kromm's post also directly contradicts, rather than clarifies, the description in the book. Short of an errata that replaces "read" with "memorize the shape of symbols independent of comprehension" in the description of Speed Reading, it doesn't make sense to have Speed-Reading without Literacy, since Speed-Reading, as described in the Basic Set, does nothing except affect the speed at which you read, and without Literacy, you can't read, period.

And its not just the use of the word "read" and "reading" in virtually every sentence of the description of Speed-Reading that supports this, its also the fact that Speed-Reading is explicitly listed as taking the Language modifiers on p.24, which includes the modifier of "you are completely incapable of functioning in the language" for a a comprehension level of "None", and Illiteracy is just a comprehension level of "None" for for written language.

Last edited by cmdicely; 09-19-2011 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:15 PM   #47
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Default Re: Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

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Originally Posted by cmdicely View Post
Kromm's post also directly contradicts, rather than clarifies, the description in the book. Short of an errata that replaces "read" with "memorize the shape of symbols independent of comprehension" in the description of Speed Reading, it doesn't make sense to have Speed-Reading without Literacy, since Speed-Reading, as described in the Basic Set, does nothing except affect the speed at which you read, and without Literacy, you can't read, period.

And its not just the use of the word "read" and "reading" in virtually every sentence of the description of Speed-Reading that supports this, its also the fact that Speed-Reading is explicitly listed as taking the Language modifiers on p.24, which includes the modifier of "you are completely incapable of functioning in the language" for a a comprehension level of "None", and Illiteracy is just a comprehension level of "None" for for written language.
Nice description of my stance. (Sorry for the delay in the reply but I had unsubscribed and was away from the forums for a while at the end of the year last year.)
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