Muggle Power Ideas.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I don't know World of Darkness at all, but if the world is much like Harry Potter, it could be as simple as lacking "Delusion: Magic is the best solution to every problem."

World of Darkness and Harry Potter really don't have much in common.

Also, not believing in the primacy of magic isn't going to do much to stop a replacement-level Potterverse wizard from stupifying and obliviating a muggle (or killing them any number of ways if they're into that). (Knowing to dodge the curses and leaving notes somewhere that wizards can't even conceive of are fairly good counters, though, provided the wizards aren't the sort to just blow the place up and kill you.)

[CeeDub]

According to Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, the advantages muggles have are technology, coordination, and numbers.

No wizard or vampire will see a headshot from a sniper rifle coming. Then there are grenades, flame throwers, tanks, airplanes, drones, surveillance tech, and nukes. All of these can be used by any number of muggles, and their technology suffers none of the drawbacks that are common in magic. No FP cost, flat learning curve, usable by almost anyone, no time-consuming rituals. And there is no shortage of muggles. They coordinate. One phone call and policemen with guns arrive. One radio call, and dozens more arrive. Escalation to SWAT, FBI, National Guard, military? All possible.

Do not mess with muggles.

ETA: Muggles will rationalize a lot of weirdness and unexplained circumstances away - up to a point, beyond which they become relentless in their pursuit of knowledge/justice/power, with near unlimited manpower and resources.

[Coinage]

The problem I have with the Dresden Files is that the threat of muggles is something the reader is told, but not something that the reader is shown.

Also, while muggles have access to modern technology, so do supers. Supers are also able to co-ordinate with each other, often better than muggles due to access to communication spells, as well as portals that allow near-instant transportation across the planet. In addition, many supers have the power to disrupt modern technology, nullifying any ability that muggles derive from their technology.

Am I asking an impossible question? Is giving muggles some kind of power removing their "muggle-ness". Is an empowered muggle a contradiction? Like saying a "married bachelor"?

If that is so, then I would make everyone who is "in-the-know" have some kind of power.

[pawsplay]

Assuming someone is a "muggle," I think it's sufficient to assume a decent point budget. Make the character a standard 150 to 250 point character. Slap on Magic Resistance 10 and so forth. It's a legal move and since it's a resistance, you can't "see" the character is a 400 point monster. Outside the supernatural frame of reference they are just a normal, action-oriented person.

Speaking of Vigils, the major conspiracies all have a "knack." So if you are following that route, some of the hunters could have a little Book magic. Some of them have minor superpowers from ritually feasting on demons. Some of them have True Faith and a trunk full of special ammunition.

[Coinage]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Assuming someone is a "muggle," I think it's sufficient to assume a decent point budget. Make the character a standard 150 to 250 point character. Slap on Magic Resistance 10 and so forth. It's a legal move and since it's a resistance, you can't "see" the character is a 400 point monster. Outside the supernatural frame of reference they are just a normal, action-oriented person.

Interesting, so if I read you right, what divides muggles from supers/monsters is that the muggles only have obvious super-powers. Muggles would be restricted to have some kind of counter-magic, or neutralize powers, or would only manifest when facing against supers.

If so, then Magic Resistance could work. Also, there would be static, and neutralize, and, if you really want to go all out, you could even have muggles inflict curses.

Also, I was thinking. This is spitballing here, but what if muggles could get power from "public" sources? Like, what if they got power by adhering to, and exemplifying, some sort of social norm? I was thinking something like the Avatars, who get power by adhering to Archetypes, in Unknown Armies

[maximara]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

According to Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, the advantages muggles have are technology, coordination, and numbers.

No wizard or vampire will see a headshot from a sniper rifle coming. Then there are grenades, flame throwers, tanks, airplanes, drones, surveillance tech, and nukes. All of these can be used by any number of muggles, and their technology suffers none of the drawbacks that are common in magic. No FP cost, flat learning curve, usable by almost anyone, no time-consuming rituals. And there is no shortage of muggles. They coordinate. One phone call and policemen with guns arrive. One radio call, and dozens more arrive. Escalation to SWAT, FBI, National Guard, military? All possible.

That is true of some type of magic but not others. Take the magic in the Slayers Universe. There is no FP and what rituals exist are quick and short. Dragon Slave! = crater where city use to be.

Another example of totally insane magic power is the Sailor Senshi who it is implied had taken magi-tech to a level where the Moon Kingdom wasn't that far from K2 status.

If the society is magi-tech where mages replace scientists then the whole dynamic changes. Yes mages are way fewer then the Muggles but they are also the provider of all those wonderful "toys". Clarke's Law is not the only one in play here; so is Niven's Law.

[Astromancer]

Most Wizards in fiction are artist/philosopher/mad scientist types. And any really close look at pre-WWII mad scientists show them as egomaniac artist/philosophers. Post-WWII, most Mad Scientists are faceless corperate drones with the Business Man becoming the new Satanic High Priest archetype. Really, Comic Books in treating Lex Luthor and Veronica Cale as Nietzchean Ubermenches have advanced beyond film and high art literature in depictions of villians.

This is relevant because organising a gruop of artist/philosophers is like herding cats, impractical and those herded don't like the attention. I suppose cults of fanatics would be the only way to do it. Even then you'll have to spend most of your time keeping your followers on side and in line. Revolts and coup d'états would be routine miseries.

Mages would soon learn to hide among muggles for safety and comfort. What's the Muggle superpower. They don't need one. The lack of a superpower is their greatest power.

[David Johansen]

You might give folk charms and superstitions some power against magic. Circles of salt, witch bottles, witch marks, little incantations, and children's rymmes might all offer some degree of protection. Silver bullets and other silver weapons might bypass magical defenses. Using things that don't quite fall under the definition of weapon might get around the language of a defensive spell or a trap might get around protections against ill intent. It may well be that white noise generators cancel incantations or flash bangs delay reaction speeds.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Coinage

The problem I have with the Dresden Files is that the threat of muggles is something the reader is told, but not something that the reader is shown.

There's at least one book where Gentleman John Marcone has a team of mundane mercenaries attack & defeat a group of (IIRC white court vampires).
Marcone uses mundane power to become a signatory of the accords.

Also, that mercenary who dates Murpy for a while take out some of the coin guys via mundane means.

It's rare but it is shown sometimes.

[DaosusLeghki]

In the Dresdenverse, there is also the case of the Black Court vampires -- almost completely wiped out because some impudent muggle had the temerity to write a book detailing their weaknesses.

One other advantage that muggles might have over monsters is that people reproduce quite quickly. A lot of monsters, for whatever reason, don't.