The Marches

[Azel]

Ethereals see "The Tapestry" instead of "The Symphony."

This is important because where sound is dynamic, and instrument 'threads' can weave into each other, for the most part sound also bleeds into one another and can 'change color' in 'mid-braid.' Tapestries require threads being distinct colored threads that stay separate, and occasionally tied off into another different colored thread, but maintaining their same line of direction. Dream domains and dream spirits are distinct in their perception -- they can migrate along the loom, or even incorporate new threads -- but they carry from past tradition, they don't usually subsume or splinter like Celestial Words. They can destroy other 'designs' along the tapestry (and gain strength from that), but they operate more like thread (or threads) and patterns than instruments and themes.

God, that metaphoric unbraiding is almost a nightmare in and of itself...

What does this mean to you? Well, as stated, everything in a 'scene' is an actor working off its traditional patterns -- with a usually aggressive desire to dominate others and gain strength. So even the scenery is 'alive' with menace; it's as much an actor -- or component of -- the dominant ethereals that populate it. Not only is everyone and everything a potential enemy/friend, but every interaction (in a world with rules favorable to it) ties you dangerously closer to creatures that have a desire to exploit you in some way (yes, even on Blandine's side, ethereals still desire to exploit enough to gain power to manifest on Earth).

So, all interactions have portent... or geases, or hidden intentions. The puzzles are imbed in deciphering the rules of the domain, the impetus of the actors, and the dangers interlaced in any 'benign' interactions. How you portray that is up to you, but them's the basics as I see it.

[alexondria]

You can also throw some things at them that brute force can't be fixed. The mortal dreamer trapped on nightmares side, yeah you could wake them, yeah you could alter the dream and guide them back to the other side, but with out teaching them to deal with the trauma at the root of the dream they'll just be back tomorrow night. You can make them chose between trying to help every mortal they see- knowing that every delay decreases their chance of succeeding in their main goal or leaving some to suffer for the "greater good".

[Azel]

OOH, i like that, watching victims you know you cannot help.

Essentially the big trouble here is throwing away corporeal 'logical reality' and celestial 'IN cosmology & Realism (the philosophy)' and getting into the headspace of fairy tale 'logic'. That's something that is extremely hard to do w/o practice or a lot of preparation. I don't know there's really a way to do it without borrowing heavily or just winging it as you go 'til it makes sense.

That's why I recommend looking over fiction again. It's one of the quicker ways to get into that headspace without ripping from other traditions wholesale. People either get Dr. Seuss, Oz, Cirque de Soleil, and Wonderland, or they don't -- and when they don't the revulsion is almost visceral. When you can get in that frame of mind improvisation becomes a lot more fluid. If you have to work with logical structures to get yourself there, then it all looks like a pointless, pyrotechnic mishmash of silliness.

Kinda like learning a new language, at some point there's a leap of faith, and then you can FLY!

Here's a good example to keep in mind: one Cthulhu monster is immune to just about everything, except light. So yeah, you're a sitting duck until you realize that those flashlights the party's generally ignoring is your primary weapon and shield. Suddenly surviving encounters over defeating enemies becomes the priority. Survival stories necessitate more puzzle solving, less fighting. (Note how so many horror stories are about survival, not victory, against the monster?) :)

[Acolyte]

Man, this thread makes me want to run/play in a Marches campaign posthaste. Good ideas all around, people.

Orlin, I wonder how much this helped? Here are some other less-conceptual ideas for challenges in The Marches:

--the old "ghost" or "skeleton bones" trick. The party encounters a monster, promptly defeats it, and the next round it reforms. It can do this an infinite number of times: it cannot be defeated in a traditional fashion. How to actually defeat it depends on the surrounding circumstances. It might require the right words, solving a more traditional puzzle, letting it hit you a few times without fighting back, or just traveling past the monster. For example, imagine an armored, spiky Black Knight ethereal bound to forever guard a bridge, beyond which lies the Blighted Door (beyond which lies Beleth's Favor). It says as much, but little else. The PCs can fight and kill it, but it reforms the next round in front of the lead PC, oathbound to continue the defense. The PCs could go around (risking a longer trip), have the toughs engage the thing while the squishies try to run by (hard on a bridge), defeat it and try to get as far as possible before it reforms, possibly taking several turns to get to the door, or question it to learn who it swore the oath to and kill that being, freeing it (this being could be a nearby demon of Nightmares, another more easily killed Ethereal, or Beleth herself, making that a bad option).

--the "fetch" quest. Does the party need to get through the Blighted Door? Then they're going to need the skull of goblin wizard, no ifs, ands, or buts. It's the Marches, and the Blighted Door just doesn't open otherwise. How the party gets the skull of a goblin wizard, though, is up to them. Maybe they're for sale at the Faerie Bazaar (great idea, Jason!), or a nearby Ethereal can point the way to the nearest goblin warren, or a nearby monster has one in its hoard, ready to be stolen or bartered for. Only one of those solutions involves combat (unless the theft goes bad!).

--"X" marks the spot. So maybe the party knows Beleth's Favor is beyond the Blighted Door, and they've just stolen a goblin wizard's skull from an Ethereal mad scientist who was planning to reanimate it. Now they have to FIND the Blighted Door, but none of the local Ethereals are interested in guiding them, even for all-important Essence (it's called the Blighted Door for a reason, and Ethereals are a superstitious lot; they may have forgotten its location on purpose). They've got to find a map, a willing guide, or someone who can part with directions. It could be as cliche as three women passing around a single eyeball for the PCs to hold as ransom for the information, or as complicated as tracking down a pirate captain who has the map as part of his collection. And in the meantime, the multitude of Igorlike servants of the mad scientist are chasing the PCs down. Goblin Wizard Skulls don't just grow on trees, after all. (This could lead to a pitched battle on the bridge with the Black Knight and the Igors sandwiching the PCs, while the low-Mind-hit Ofanite races forward with the goblin wizard's skull, trying to get the Blighted Door open long enough for the PCs to escape while trapping the vengeful Ethereals on the other side.)

I should probably stop before I craft an entire campaign out of my examples. As a general idea, find a puzzle from a mythic quest (Greek epics, Norse eddas, Brothers Grimm tales, Arabian Nights, the Ramayana, etc), swap out the particulars with other mythic, pop culture, or utterly random actors, and string it together in a way that reinforces the overall "Everything must fit the STORY above all" nature of the Marches. And then string a few such things together, utilizing Domains that allow Strength and Agility to function (good idea, everyone), set among the agony of tortured dreaming humans, all with the omnipresent looming Tower of Beleth layering its crushing fear (and the fear of its gaze, Sauron-esque) over it all, and blammo. That sounds like a great game.


[Idly, I will also note that the EPG doesn't really click with most of In Nomine, probably because it's focused on something largely tangential to the War and swamped in many rules and terms that aren't part of the core. That said, I enjoyed reading it, and utilizing it to create a wanna-be angel Ethereal PC for a game--focusing the variety it offers back on the real "point" of IN.]