Clerics made simple

[Nils_Lindeberg]

Thanks for the clarification Zot.

So if there will be any changes in the normal TFT rules, it will be a light errata/clarification to the existing minimalistic talents, but no more. And probably not even that. :-(

I would have liked to se something along the lines of my light weight, low word count and inoffensive change in the official RAW and then something like your Toolkit for an optional rule or article in the Companion. :-(

[zot]

Originally Posted by Nils_Lindeberg

Thanks for the clarification Zot.

So if there will be any changes in the normal TFT rules, it will be a light errata/clarification to the existing minimalistic talents, but no more. And probably not even that. :-(

I would have liked to se something along the lines of my light weight, low word count and inoffensive change in the official RAW and then something like your Toolkit for an optional rule or article in the Companion. :-(

Since Guy's article, "Beyond Warriors and Wizards: The Clerical Character", is a simple priest toolkit, this gives me hope that my system, now that it's a priest toolkit, will be acceptable. :-D

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by zot

Since Guy's article, "Beyond Warriors and Wizards: The Clerical Character", is a simple priest toolkit, this gives me hope that my system, now that it's a priest toolkit, will be acceptable. :-D

Where is that article?

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by zot

Yes, Steve and I had a long conversation about my Theurgy system and this is the statement he ended up making:

I have to say, I strongly disagree with Steve's reasoning here. The vast majority of games and gamers use 'Fantasy' religions and no one has ever complained of 'short changing' real ones.

[zot]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

Where is that article?

Here it is -- finally found it!

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

I have to say, I strongly disagree with Steve's reasoning here. The vast majority of games and gamers use 'Fantasy' religions and no one has ever complained of 'short changing' real ones.

Since you wrote "no one", I'll just mention that I quite agree with Steve's reasoning, have always appreciated and enjoyed that TFT left religion as a blank that GMs can either fill in or not however they please, and that there are zero mechanics suggesting religious is any particular sort of magic power.

As for fantasy religions in other games, they're a case by case affair, but I have a deep aversion towards D&D-style religions with official Alignments, literal personified gods, "clerics" that heal, religious rites that are really just an alternate book of magic zap-power spells, etc.

There's also the whole view (which seems correct to me) that thinking of religion as literal beings and magic spells for personal power is severely missing the mark of what the actual intention of most religious traditions are about.

I have quite enjoyed religions in various homebrew TFT & GURPS fantasy settings, but I think leaving them open to GM creation, mystery, or omission, is a good thing.

[larsdangly]

I enjoy the ambiguity of TFT's approach to religion.

I've created sets of house rules for performing sacraments and miracles, but I also think you can do lots of interesting things with such characters using RAW, where they are either heroes who known a spell or two or wizards with the Priest talent. I have a character like this at the moment. He's an old christian orthodox priest ('Father Pyat') who is also a master physicker and knows two powerful spells of protection. Completely useless as an offensive combatant, but he doesn't view murder as an important goal for a person of his vocation.

[Skarg]

Yes, I've also seen very interesting and fun "clerical" & religious characters who have zero magical nor healing nor "blessing" abilities at all.

If the official rules said religious people get standard sorts of abilities, that'd tend to lock in a mechanical assumption.

[larsdangly]

Exactly; what if you want your priest of Thor to be able to throw lightning bolts as a manifestation of the god's power? In TFT this is trivially easy to write up, whereas in most other games with nominally more developed systems of religious magic you might struggle to find just the right class, or it would come with a bunch of baggage that you didn't intend for your character.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Completely useless as an offensive combatant, but he doesn't view murder as an important goal for a person of his vocation.

Ah this makes me laugh.

Every once in awhile, I realise that our group of PCs have serious, SERIOUS issues.