[LT] Two Armor questions

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Qcumber

Here are a few ideas I had on the subject of incorporating blunt trauma and edge protection. There are flaws but I have done a little play-testing and I think the concept could be developed.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=75990

No disrespect to your concept, but this isn't how I'll be going about it. I'll be using force, lever arm, impact area, and sharpness kind of stuff, the same way I used KE and MV and cross section to do guns and bows.

[Qcumber]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

No disrespect to your concept, but this isn't how I'll be going about it. I'll be using force, lever arm, impact area, and sharpness kind of stuff, the same way I used KE and MV and cross section to do guns and bows.

Ah. I see. I'll be interested to see the outcome.

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Warhammers, picks and maces were the primary weapons used for centuries to defeat armor, it's not about Munchkin gamers choosing to use a warhammer or a mace, it's about the warhammer and the mace being the weapon they should have realistically been using to begin with.

Oh I know that professionals, people who want to and know how to defeat heavy armour uses maces. These were a fairly common weapon among knights who knew how tough their own armour was. Perhaps to a lesser degree warhammers, but still used among professionals.
The thing I was warning aginst is to have every goon and his grandmother use picks, because this is the only thing that'll pierce armour. Picks should be cheap and easy to make, unlike swords. And they even look like tools (a bit, come on...) so they might not be as restricted as swords in most settings.

We play a 'Song of Ice and Fire' campaign, with most characters being nobles and knights. Even if just in their heavy mail, using the Edge protection rules from LT means most blades merely give blunt trauma. And once the heavy knights put their heavy plate on top of that...
It does help a bit once we realized that Edge Protection shouldn't apply to Impaling as well. But even those strong knights realize than even a light mail will foil most of their sword cuts. Now, maybe they'll start using axes and maces at some point.

BTW we play with some house rules being a mish-mash of stuff I found on this forum. At first we used T-Bones Edge Protection, but since LT came out we switched to that Edge Protection system. Also we use some version of a thing I believe Icelander came up with and posted, where the dameg types are annoted with a "+" or "-" depending on their penetrating capabilities. A sword is just Cut, but an axe is Cut+. A club or round mace is Cr but a flanged mace is Cr+ etc. And all armour types have some modifications, so those weapons ding some form of "+" damage type has better odds at penetrating certain armour types, because DR is reduced vs. those attacks. It may sound complex, but it really runs well.

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by Qcumber

Ah. I see. I'll be interested to see the outcome.

Ditto. But when?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

The thing I was warning aginst is to have every goon and his grandmother use picks, because this is the only thing that'll pierce armour. Picks should be cheap and easy to make, unlike swords. And they even look like tools (a bit, come on...) so they might not be as restricted as swords in most settings.

Realistically picks would be relatively difficult to use as weapons; it's a lot easier to hit at a bad angle.

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Realistically picks would be relatively difficult to use as weapons; it's a lot easier to hit at a bad angle.

Harder than an axe then?

[Joseph Paul]

Anthony - I would like to see some proof of that.

[DanHoward]

With a digging pick it is certainly hard to hit properly but something like a bec de corbin is much smaller and lighter.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

Oh I know that professionals, people who want to and know how to defeat heavy armour uses maces. These were a fairly common weapon among knights who knew how tough their own armour was. Perhaps to a lesser degree warhammers, but still used among professionals.
The thing I was warning aginst is to have every goon and his grandmother use picks, because this is the only thing that'll pierce armour. Picks should be cheap and easy to make, unlike swords. And they even look like tools (a bit, come on...) so they might not be as restricted as swords in most settings.

One handed warhammers, things like the "martel-de-fer" mentioned in Low Tech, were just about as common as maces, especially since they were effectively a mace on one side.

Something along these lines:
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_aa_wham.html

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

With a digging pick it is certainly hard to hit properly but something like a bec de corbin is much smaller and lighter.

Sure, that would help, but in the end, a proper strike with an impaling weapon requires your blow to come in quite close to normal to the surface, otherwise it's highly prone to turning, particularly against armor with a smooth, hard surface. Blades have the same limitation, but only have to be normal to the surface in one dimension (rather than two) and have a larger sweet spot with which it's acceptable to hit the target. For crushing weapons, a round staff is easier than a round ball which is easier than a hammer head.