optional head-shot lethality rule

elustran · 02-13-2009, 07:00 PM

I'm thinking of ways to make truly damaging head-shots more lethal - any damage in excess of HP would get applied to the brain.

So, if a character with HP 10 recieved 15 points of piercing damage to the face, he would take 10 points of damage +5x4 points of damage, for a total of 30 points of damage.

Does this seem at all reasonable? Would it make more sense for damage to be doubled instead, since there is a chance that the attack will simply damage neck tissue, not the brain or brain-stem? Or maybe roll a die, and on a 1-2, apply damage to the brain?

Icelander · 02-13-2009, 07:06 PM

To me it seems that there should be at least a chance that Head shots hit something more vital than the lower jaw or other outer areas of the face. After all, plenty of real world bullets went through facial tissue to lodge in the brain.

To keep it simple, though, I usually just roll 1d and rule that a 1 means a brain hit that does not go through the Skull DR first.

Maz · 02-13-2009, 07:08 PM

Face location is the nose and jaw area. It is not a "head shot". A Headsot is targeted against the skull.

Exsees damage to the Face could/should break, shatter or even rip off nose or jaw... but not make brain damage.

...you can survive with a shattered jaw, but it is not nice.

[edit] I agree with the Icelander. It follows the logic of the rest of GURPS.

Langy · 02-13-2009, 07:10 PM

Why is a face shot at a smaller penalty than the skull, then? The lower face is of similar size to the braincase, after all - and the upper face would still be a brain hit.

Icelander · 02-13-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langy

Why is a face shot at a smaller penalty than the skull, then? The lower face is of similar size to the braincase, after all - and the upper face would still be a brain hit.

It's a mystery, no doubt about it. The skull is actually at a higher penalty than suggested by its size. No doubt for balance reasons.

roguebfl · 02-13-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

It's a mystery, no doubt about it. The skull is actually at a higher penalty than suggested by its size. No doubt for balance reasons.

Or the penalties are face-on biased, and from face-on less of the skull is facing you then the face, change this to side-on this changes. but we don't have decide on table.

Icelander · 02-13-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Or the penalties are face-on biased, and from face-on less of the skull is facing you then the face, change this to side-on this changes. but we don't have decide on table.

I know that from behind, the penalty to hit the Skull is only -5. Given, however, that with many weapons hitting the upper part of the face will tend to cause brain damage, it seems somewhat inconsistent. Especially if the Vitals hit location is supposed to represent a particular vital organ (as said recently by Toadkiller Dog).

The heart is no bigger than the brain, so it's a bit weird that one is -3 to hit and the other is -7. Of course, surrounding the heart are a bunch of blood vessels that are almost as good for the attacker's purposes (unless he's a vampire hunter), but that would tend to invalidate Toadkiller Dog's point.

DungeonCrawler · 02-13-2009, 09:20 PM

I can say that hits to the head are a lot less likely than might be indicated by mere size because it moves...a lot.

Same should actually go for all the limbs.

It's more than mere size that makes center-body-mass the place to shoot for. It may move, but nowhere near as quickly as the limbs, nor does it change direction as abruptly.

Gudiomen · 02-13-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

The heart is no bigger than the brain, so it's a bit weird that one is -3 to hit and the other is -7. Of course, surrounding the heart are a bunch of blood vessels that are almost as good for the attacker's purposes (unless he's a vampire hunter), but that would tend to invalidate Toadkiller Dog's point.

"Vitals" does not correspond to just the heart, but to the lungs, vessel rich areas, etc... targeting just the heart may be -7. I've always assumed that "vitas" were the generic damage modifier to attacks that purposely tried to puncture the chest between the ribs and reach the mushy insides, decompress the chest, hit the heart, lungs, etc... in general. After all hitting the vitals from behind is still -3 (kidneys, lungs, etc...) but it's harder to hit the heart from behind.

To hit penalties are also modified by "presented" or "retreated" in regards to the body part being normally exposed or harder to reach with a blow. The head would probably be in the latter category, and all fighting styles probably defend it emphatically... even no fighting styles will do... instinct on a blow to the head is to flinch and back it away from blows... while it might be to interpose an arm when being hit by something.

I think Maz hit the nail on the head though. If you're shooting for the "head" at -5 in GURPS you're aiming for the face and jaw. So no, you won't hit the brain in general, no it shouldn't be more lethal. The proper head-shot should be aimed at the skull. If you want to explode your enemies brains... aim for the brains.

Langy · 02-13-2009, 10:28 PM

The problem is with penetrating attacks, the brain is behind the vast majority of the face area as well as the 'skull' area - according to this picture, the brain is behind every part of the face except for the lower jaw. Yeah, below the eyes it's primarily the brain stem, but a hit to the brain stem will damned well kill a man, probably even more than a hit to the rest of the brain.

02-13-2009, 07:00 PM	#1
elustran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: California	optional head-shot lethality rule I'm thinking of ways to make truly damaging head-shots more lethal - any damage in excess of HP would get applied to the brain. So, if a character with HP 10 recieved 15 points of piercing damage to the face, he would take 10 points of damage +5x4 points of damage, for a total of 30 points of damage. Does this seem at all reasonable? Would it make more sense for damage to be doubled instead, since there is a chance that the attack will simply damage neck tissue, not the brain or brain-stem? Or maybe roll a die, and on a 1-2, apply damage to the brain?

02-13-2009, 07:06 PM	#2
Icelander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland*	Re: optional head-shot lethality rule To me it seems that there should be at least a chance that Head shots hit something more vital than the lower jaw or other outer areas of the face. After all, plenty of real world bullets went through facial tissue to lodge in the brain. To keep it simple, though, I usually just roll 1d and rule that a 1 means a brain hit that does not go through the Skull DR first. __________________ Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

02-13-2009, 07:08 PM	#3
Maz Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Denmark	Re: optional head-shot lethality rule Face location is the nose and jaw area. It is not a "head shot". A Headsot is targeted against the skull. Exsees damage to the Face could/should break, shatter or even rip off nose or jaw... but not make brain damage. ...you can survive with a shattered jaw, but it is not nice. [edit] I agree with the Icelander. It follows the logic of the rest of GURPS.

02-13-2009, 07:10 PM	#4
Langy Join Date: May 2008 Location: CA	Re: optional head-shot lethality rule Why is a face shot at a smaller penalty than the skull, then? The lower face is of similar size to the braincase, after all - and the upper face would still be a brain hit.

02-13-2009, 09:20 PM	#8
DungeonCrawler Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: optional head-shot lethality rule I can say that hits to the head are a lot less likely than might be indicated by mere size because it moves...a lot. Same should actually go for all the limbs. It's more than mere size that makes center-body-mass the place to shoot for. It may move, but nowhere near as quickly as the limbs, nor does it change direction as abruptly.

02-13-2009, 10:28 PM	#10
Langy Join Date: May 2008 Location: CA	Re: optional head-shot lethality rule The problem is with penetrating attacks, the brain is behind the vast majority of the face area as well as the 'skull' area - according to this picture, the brain is behind every part of the face except for the lower jaw. Yeah, below the eyes it's primarily the brain stem, but a hit to the brain stem will damned well kill a man, probably even more than a hit to the rest of the brain.