GURPS does dungeon crawl?

[ham2anv]

So, I've been thinking about dungeon crawls, and I was wondering how well GURPS could handle that particular game style. I personally think it would work out just fine, and I'm putting together notes to that very effect.

I'd be curious to hear what others' experience is with dungeon crawl style gaming with GURPS. Does the system improve on any of the traditional elements, especially combat? Are there any particular pitfalls to avoid when approaching a dungeon crawl in GURPS? What options or abilities make for a better crawling experience?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

The problem I've encountered is that people get hurt in GURPS combat, and healing spells get progressively more difficult to cast in a short period of time. Make sure that adventurers have plenty of healing potions on hand.

[Mark Caliber]

In many ways, dungeon crawls are little more than exercises in resource management and allocation.

The points that Turhan Bey . . . pointed out is not untrue nor unique to GURPS. In D&D, people take hit points still, and magic spells are also limited (actually more sharply than in GURPS!)

The mechanics in GURPS actually tend to work better (especially magic) for dungeon delving, than they do in D&D.

[CraigR]

The solution we came up with in the dungeoncrawl game I'm currently in is to allow "over-the-top" advantages to give them an edge and let them be comfortable with being greatly outnumbered. The spellcasters came up with 2 different solutions: The mage took Magery 7 and Extreme Regeneration (Fatigue Only) with Gadget limitations. The Priest of Ra OTOH just has 51 FP.

This started as a 200-pt game with 4 characters (the two above, a cutlass-wielding rogue and a dedicated fighter) and, while we have been running through adapted 1st-3rd level dungeons, I think we'd crank through 5th-7th level conversions without too much trouble. It's great fun and great combat system practice. :)

[Bruno]

We've done some dungeon crawl type mini-adventures in our group before. As a GM there's a few things you want to sort out in advance of the session(s):

1) traditional dungeon crawls are filled with horrible monsters and the undead. Establish with your players before hand whether you are using fright check rules, and what it will take before you start asking them to make fright checks.
We had a game where all the characters were specifically created as having no prior experience with the undead, and only one character had a passing familiarity with "the Occult" outside of "civil wizardry". Unfortunately one player didn't really notice this, and was really annoyed when he failed a fright check against "mere zombies". Make sure everyone's on the same wavelength.

2) If you have a D&D DMG, have a look at the environmental hazards section - it's pretty much a good list of stuff you'll want to have in mind in a dungeon crawl situation, especially with players who have prior experience with the genre.

Difficulty modifiers for picking locks should be listed for each locked door. Lock is made for a huge key and gives you lots of room to work inside it? give it a bonus. Lock is rusty? Give it a penalty that can be negated by applying lubricating oil if the player thinks of it.

Give "stuck" doors and barred doors ST ratings if the PCs want to force it open (Quick contest of strength sounds reasonable). Make sure to have DR and HP ratings handy in case they decide to hack it down.

Good trick: create "standard door A" "standard door B" etc references with everything already written up and re-use them ruthelessly.

Any pits that need to be jumped, make sure you have the jumping rules handy. If they're covered, note what penalty or bonus the characters have on their Search roll to discover it. Pre-figure falling damage into the pit, or at least pre-figure the "falling velocity" to save you one step.



The big difference between D&D and GURPS for dungeon crawls is that the D&D DMG already includes what ammounts to a Dungeon Crawls sourcebook, whereas GURPS has all the core bits and pieces, but nothing already written up, in a "grab and go" format.

[Kromm]

I've never run a dungeon-crawl campaign in GURPS, but I've run numerous dungeon-crawl adventures or "story arcs" within fantasy campaigns run under GURPS rules. Others have pretty much hit the nail on the head: in GURPS, as in all RPGs, the big challenge of the dungeon crawl is the resource-management exercise. The party has to juggle FP, HP, and possibly character points (if buying successes is allowed); ration abilities that have limited uses (like Luck) or that degrade with use (like Healing spells); and keep careful track of equipment, especially things like arrows, bandages, food, and elixirs.

If you want to have extended dungeon-crawling -- and the adventures in my campaigns have had this element to them -- then the key is to allow the PCs to have abilities that extend or bend the limits on resources. Some of the ones I've found useful, on top of the traditional spells for casters and possible cinematic martial-arts skills for warriors:

• Extra Attack. This doesn't immediately seem like a resource-management aid, but it's a very powerful one. It means that the party takes out more foes per turn in combat, which means fewer chances to run afoul of enemy critical hits.
  
  
• FP. Be sure to let spellcasters have plenty of FP. And consider letting High HP and Healing (p. B424) apply to FP recovery as well, so that in the time that a normal man regains 1 FP, a wizard with 40 FP gets back 4 FP, before considering Recover Energy.
  
  
• Fit. This doesn't help regenerate FP used for magic, but it surely helps regain FP spent on Extra Effort in Combat (p. B357), which in turn helps heroes hoe through fodder monsters without taking a scratch.
  
  
• Gizmos. Let alchemist PCs use this to justify making one elixir per Gizmo per game session from moss, roots, ground rocks, dead monsters, etc. And let them do so quickly, perhaps in mere seconds, if they have Quick Gadgeteer as well.
  
  
• Healing. The Healing advantage has one huge edge over healing spells, which is that it's open-ended. It's still at -3 per use after the first in a day on a given subject, but while Major Healing might be capped at 4 FP healing 8 HP a pop, Healing can suck up 10 FP and heal 20 HP, and still count as "one use."
  
  
• HP. There's no shame in allowing big warriors to have lots of HP. This lets them do what big warriors do best: tank for everybody else. And don't overlook High HP and Healing (p. B424) for those with 20 and 30 HP. A use of Healing that would restore 20 HP to an ordinary man would restore 60 HP to a warrior with 30 HP!
  
  
• Luck. The simple expedient of being able to reroll one's defense against a dire attack or spell that would result in the party having to expend limited resources to restore or heal you is among the most powerful of resource-saving abilities.
  
  
• Metabolism Control, Reduced Consumption, etc. For monks and the like, these traits are a useful way to reduce food and water requirements. Don't overlook that 10 lbs. less food means 10 lbs. more arrows or healing potions . . .
  
  
• Patron (God; Highly Accessible, +50%; Special Abilities, +100%). Give clerics the patronage of an indulgent deity who -- as long as the cleric is slaying Evil and cleansing Bad Places -- is willing to listen to petitions for aid. This may be in addition to or instead of spells. When you've overestimated the party in your role as GM, and they're limping along barely half of the way in, you can make amends in your role as the god -- say, by performing a group healing.
  
  
• Serendipity. Just happening to stumble upon the remains of the last adventuring party to come this way, or a secret cache belonging to monsters, can be a life-saver. When the heroic archer is out of arrows, even a dead elf with 20 half-rotted arrows giving -1 to skill is a welcome sight.
  
  
• Shticks. Things like "Can always strike a flame" can be surprisingly valuable after the party has just trekked through a chest-deep slime puddle. And then there's "Medic!," which lets a healer rig ordinary but sterile bandages from just about anything: moss, goblin hide, ration wrappers, etc.

The other enemy of dungeon adventures is player boredom if combats take too long. Things like Extra Attack and Weapon Master help a lot to speed up the fighting, but some GM complicity helps. Make lots of unnatural monsters Fragile (Unnatural), and simply have them turn to goo or fall apart at -HP rather than fight on by making HT rolls. Only let intelligent boss monsters use Deceptive Attack, Rapid Strike, etc.; everything else just makes constant Attacks, and some things always All-Out Attack and don't defend. And save two classes of foes for use as bosses or end-of-level challenges: those that regenerate quickly, possibly by leeching, and those capable of draining resources or disintegrating items.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Establish with your players before hand whether you are using fright check rules, and what it will take before you start asking them to make fright checks.

I give dungeon-crawling adventurers the benefit of the doubt whenever past experience would matter. I only ever use Fright Checks if some monster has the Terror advantage, and I always assume that the PCs have familiarity with common items used with their skills. This includes such things as familiarity with common demons and undead when making Occultism rolls!

Originally Posted by Bruno

Give "stuck" doors and barred doors ST ratings if the PCs want to force it open (Quick contest of strength sounds reasonable).

Any pits that need to be jumped, make sure you have the jumping rules handy.

And be willing to wing it! If a player wants her PC to force a door or jump a pit, just say, "Gimme a ST roll," or "Roll against Jumping." If it's supposed to be a tough door, or a dangerous pit with sloped sides and spikes, toss in an arbitrary -1 to -10. If it's designed to be circumvented by subtlety -- and brute force isn't meant to work -- don't miss a beat: "You have some serious misgivings . . . That means the roll is at -20. Still want to try?" But let 'em try! If they fail, well, the monsters beyond the door become alerted and get a free salvo, or the PC falls into your trap, and the players will respect "minor" foes and "obvious" traps a lot more. If they succeed, they have a great story to tell!

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I give dungeon-crawling adventurers the benefit of the doubt whenever past experience would matter. I only ever use Fright Checks if some monster has the Terror advantage, and I always assume that the PCs have familiarity with common items used with their skills. This includes such things as familiarity with common demons and undead when making Occultism rolls!

Oh sure, that's probably the safest way to go as the GM, especially if you don't have time to tell/ask your players (or don't want to give away that there will be zombies/whatever) - this way it's a pleasant surprise when they find out, rather than a nasty one.

The important thing is if you rule otherwise, you should go out of your way to make that clear to the players so they are prepared to occasionally fail fright checks.

Originally Posted by Kromm

And be willing to wing it!

Oh heck yes. But even better is not having to wing it because you thought if it already. ;)

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Oh sure, that's probably the safest way to go as the GM, especially if you don't have time to tell/ask your players (or don't want to give away that there will be zombies/whatever) - this way it's a pleasant surprise when they find out, rather than a nasty one.

The important thing is if you rule otherwise, you should go out of your way to make that clear to the players so they are prepared to occasionally fail fright checks.

I think the key thing is that if you're trying to simulate That Other Game™ -- where it seems that the PCs (not just the players) routinely know all the special abilities of common monsters, and willingly go hunting liches and greater demons -- you don't want to mess with Fright Checks and familiarity penalties to monster-recognition skills. You just want to go along with the whole silliness of clerics lumping undead into taxa, and immediately identifying them and their abilities on sight . . . and professional "monster slayers" who actively seek brain-eating squidfaces. That's as big a part of the dungeon-fantasy subgenre as piles of HP and artillery spells. There are adventurers and then there are no-account Joes who make up most of the world, and adventurers are qualitatively different. Where entire villages pick up and run from a single monster, Fred the First-Level Fighter just shrugs and sticks it with a sword.

[The Whiner Knight]

Woah. And here I thought GURPS was fairly anti-dungeon. There's a sidebar in Characters that sniffs at kick-in-the-door play.

I'd almost decided that what that sidebar meant was the "giant dragon in a 10-foot room" semi- or totally-random dungeons, and that a giant underground complex stocked with monsters, traps, and loot was okay if it had a good plot, not just one of those "find the mystic wand of eye pokeage" quests.

And now here's the Line Editor hissownself saying that dungeon delving is perfectly okay.

That has relieved me of a whole lot of stress about maintaining a gigundous plot with more threads than the FSM has noodly appendages. If I can blow off steam by cribbing from my collection of adventure magazines, then that's fun for me too.

Thanks!

TWK