Pyramid #3/120: Alternate GURPS V

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

This is true. With the Threshold/Wound potential system you're just looking for number of rows of difference (or straight subtraction) of the log values, which does the division for you, and faster - because it's addition/subtraction - than most folks do division. But if you want to use the raw damage numbers and for each creature list all the breakpoints etc, that's cool.

My thinking was to list the breakpoints, yeah, but I forgot that you would need to do it for every NPC. With that in mind, it's probably easier to do it your way.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi

I have some questions about the Conditional Injury.

* You roll damage as normal, let's say 3d with your longsword. But you don't apply the x1.5 from cutting, is that it? Instead, after converting your damage to Wound Potential, you add +1 from Damage Midifiers (pg 29)?

So, in the example above. Let's say you roll 10 on your 3d sword. This mean Wound Potential of 4. Since is cutting, you apply +1, resulting a Wound Potential of 5. Is that it?

The same strike above, in the neck would be a Wound Potential of 6 (4+2 from Hit Location)?

So, against a Robustness Threshold 4, this would result a 2 in the Conditional Effects Table, a Martal Wound, is that it?

Basically correct; the way I would like to think of it is that you first compare basic damage to DR; in this case, the damage (10) is compared against DR 0, so 10 points (wound potential 4) get through. That's a Severity 0 wound; basically "you did enough basic damage to equal your target's HP."

The cutting shifts it up one level to Severity 1; cutting to the neck would indeed shift it up to Severity 2, a Mortal Wound - enough damage to go from HP to -HP in one shot.

Another question. What about pain? When shock penalty applies?

Pain is designed to replace the shock penalty. When you get hit, you make the HT roll to see how much that wound hurts (and the pain can be disproportionate to the wound if you roll poorly). That penalty, which is close to the shock penalty in the low pain regions but can be incapacitating in the higher pain levels, applies immediately.

However, you can try and master the pain (a HT roll penalized by Severity; low severity wounds will indeed provide a bonus; as noted above, Will should be allowed here too), and if you succeed in that roll you can fight on until combat ends, when you get the "oh, crap . . . I got stabbed. Right here." factor.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Sam Baughn

My thinking was to list the breakpoints, yeah, but I forgot that you would need to do it for every NPC. With that in mind, it's probably easier to do it your way.

This is why some of my favorite rule alterations, like The Last Gasp, get used less than I'd like at the table. I tried to address this a bit with a Quick and Dirty method in TLG, but my goal in my more recent writing is to ensure a painless play experience for the GM, who especially has more load than the players, when adopting new rules.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by SteamBub

That Fifth Attribute is something I could see myself using for a Supers game with use of all the powers and magic systems available.

I'm seriously considering it for future games. My current one, I won't disrupt the players by adding it, though part of me wishes it had been available a year ago when I started trawling for players.

[Arcanjo7Sagi]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Basically correct; the way I would like to think of it is that you first compare basic damage to DR; in this case, the damage (10) is compared against DR 0, so 10 points (wound potential 4) get through. That's a Severity 0 wound; basically "you did enough basic damage to equal your target's HP."

The cutting shifts it up one level to Severity 1; cutting to the neck would indeed shift it up to Severity 2, a Mortal Wound - enough damage to go from HP to -HP in one shot.




Pain is designed to replace the shock penalty. When you get hit, you make the HT roll to see how much that wound hurts (and the pain can be disproportionate to the wound if you roll poorly). That penalty, which is close to the shock penalty in the low pain regions but can be incapacitating in the higher pain levels, applies immediately.

However, you can try and master the pain (a HT roll penalized by Severity; low severity wounds will indeed provide a bonus; as noted above, Will should be allowed here too), and if you succeed in that roll you can fight on until combat ends, when you get the "oh, crap . . . I got stabbed. Right here." factor.

Thanks!

I really love this article! I really thing that it would be great if you guys pick this and the The Last Gasp (and maybe other minor tweaks) to create a specific suplement just for expand these rules, deepening their impact on the system. I would certainly buy.

I think this article is almost a dream coming true. For years I wish GURPS had a system like this. Thank you very much!

Another thing: the only thing is that with this, we probably would need a table-check all the times, no? Convert the damage all the time, check the table ... I loved the rules, but I wonder if they would not make the game slower at first. Maybe someone could create a separate sheet with a table for easy conversion. Or even a table in excel. Hmm ... I'll think about it.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi

Another thing: the only thing is that with this, we probably would need a table-check all the times, no? Convert the damage all the time, check the table ... I loved the rules, but I wonder if they would not make the game slower at first. Maybe someone could create a separate sheet with a table for easy conversion. Or even a table in excel. Hmm ... I'll think about it.

Part of my concern with using it as well.
Be awfully convenient if someone would print the tables and offer them on W23 as a free PDF like the Combat Cards or Martial Arts Technique cheat sheet, just saying...

However for PCs and ready made NPCs just list the rating and you only have to lookup damage and know the wounding modifiers for Severity.
I dont think it will take too long in play,but not willing to risk it with my current group. Maybe after they are more familiar with GURPS.

[Arcanjo7Sagi]

Another thing. As far as I understand, although these rules exclude HP from the characters, it not excluded 100% from the system. It is not a really independent system. For example, there isn't a fixed cost for leveling up your Threshold, you need to buy extra HP until you can convert to the next level. And this cost is variable.

So, if anyone wants to do a Powered by GURPS that use only this system, how do it?

I'm thinking here on how to make the system more independent of these conversions. You know, to save time and calculations.

But again, this is not a complaint or criticism, I loved the article!

[calmquist]

Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi

Another thing. As far as I understand, although these rules exclude HP from the characters, it not excluded 100% from the system. It is not a really independent system. For example, there isn't a fixed cost for leveling up your Threshold, you need to buy extra HP until you can convert to the next level. And this cost is variable.

So, if anyone wants to do a Powered by GURPS that use only this system, how do it?

I'm thinking here on how to make the system more independent of these conversions. You know, to save time and calculations.

But again, this is not a complaint or criticism, I loved the article!

I think pricing the wound threshold like IT(DR) could work. It IT(DR) and increased wound threshold would do essentially the same thing. The first few levels would be overpriced however.

Collisions and falls could use ST instead of HP for characters, but objects don't tend to have ST.

Getting rid of damage would be difficult since it is easy subtract DR from damage, but creating armor on the same scale as the wound threshold would be hard. Layered DR and cover would make the problem even more difficult.

[Arcanjo7Sagi]

Originally Posted by calmquist

I think pricing the wound threshold like IT(DR) could work. It IT(DR) and increased wound threshold would do essentially the same thing. The first few levels would be overpriced however.

Collisions and falls could use ST instead of HP for characters, but objects don't tend to have ST.

Getting rid of damage would be difficult since it is easy subtract DR from damage, but creating armor on the same scale as the wound threshold would be hard. Layered DR and cover would make the problem even more difficult.

Personally, I do not mind leaving the damage as it is and converting when need it. There is too many variables in the damage system (weapons, techniques, skills...), so just converting is fine to me.

I just wish we could get rid of the HP system entirely, making the system independent of it, self-contained.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi

Another thing. As far as I understand, although these rules exclude HP from the characters, it not excluded 100% from the system. It is not a really independent system. For example, there isn't a fixed cost for leveling up your Threshold, you need to buy extra HP until you can convert to the next level. And this cost is variable.

So, if anyone wants to do a Powered by GURPS that use only this system, how do it?

I'm thinking here on how to make the system more independent of these conversions. You know, to save time and calculations.

But again, this is not a complaint or criticism, I loved the article!

I was seeking a way to properly price increased threshold and ran out of time. I have a few more ideas for designers notes and if I can improve pricing I will.