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Old 03-08-2006, 11:24 AM   #161
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by DrTemp
What kind of firearms are that? What kind of campaigns?
Both are heroic fantasy. My knight keeps a brace of wheellocks handy for pursuits, detering of; on offense he still prefers his lance. Flintlocks have not yet been developed. The other has flintlocks, but, with all the usual problems of keeping powder dry and the fact that there's still an unexplored border into non-human territories nearby, broadswords are just as common in military applications, as are grenades and potions dropped from giant flying fire-breathing dogs and archers on flying elephant-back.
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:58 PM   #162
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by Paul
Look again; both Kromm and I have said, very clearly, that the final name hasn't been decided. "Low-Tech," "Fantasy-Tech," "Fantastic-Tech," and "Stoddard's House of Grass Clippings" are all in the running.
Disclaimer: I'm just now getting back into GURPS after about a decade away, so I may be way off-base now that G4e is in the mix....

The three major divisions - to me - have always seemed like muscle-power, gunpowder, and fusion power. (Hey, I had to make it rhyme somehow.) It always seemed intuitive to me that Low-Tech would handle things that a person or a small community could make with the classic "simple machines" and muscle power, High-Tech handles things once we get into other sources of power (Industrial Revolution) through the modern day, and Ultra-Tech handles theoretical concepts that we're just now making the tools to make the tools to work with - from stardrives and fusion to neural maps and molycircs. Or, to put it in lay terms - D&D is Group I, Steampunk is Group II, and Cyberpunk is Group III.

As for how that maps in G4e tech level terms, I gather Group I goes through about TL4, Group II takes us to TL8, and Group III is "anything after that."

As far as the names of the books go, I certainly see strong traditional reasons for maintaining the Low/High/Ultra-Tech branding. It's intuitive for newcomers and doesn't confuse the issue with upgraders. All the same, I certainly agree that TL5 isn't what I'd expect out of "High-Tech" - that name seems more modern-day to me. Perhaps an "Age" scheme could work well: the Iron Age, the Mechanical Age, and the Nanotech Age?
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:54 AM   #163
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by HANS
HIGH-TECH runs from TL5-8, and the book formerly known as LOW-TECH runs from TL0-TL4 . . .
So is this official?

If TL4 is in the new edition of Low-Tech, I see much less of a problem filling the 240-pages with fictional and fantasy stuff. Boxes here and there can do the trick, but you can keep the book focused on historical accuracy. For example, expanding by only 10%:
Code:
Chapters            3e pages    4e pages
ToC and Intro           9          10
TL0                    22          25
TL1                    25          28
TL2                    24          27
TL3                    25          28
TL4                     0          30
Appendix and Index     23          30
----------------------------------------
Total                 128         178
You have almost 180 pages crammed with useful information. And this doesn't include all the interesting suggestion in the thread: Pyramid articles, traveling/sailing, agriculture, bartering, architecture, economy, more everyday gears. I think there's more than enough material already written, we need an author (hint, hint: Bill Stoddard*) to put it together and fill in the gaps to make a cohesive whole.

Even if SJG doesn't want to follow this outline, the above numbers suggest there are over 60 pages for fictional stuff. Use boxes all around the book, fantasy appendices at the end of each TL, and you're done!


* Edit: I prefer Kromm to concentrate on crunch books :)
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:40 PM   #164
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

Low-Tech by Crom or I'll send my vertically challenged thief to savage thy knees:)
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:36 AM   #165
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

Paleo-tech, Mezo-tech and Neo-tech? But Neo-tech is taken, so...any ideas?
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:17 AM   #166
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by jacobmuller
Low-Tech by Crom or I'll send my vertically challenged thief to savage thy knees:)
Your knees are toast, then, since Crom is an old-world deity. :)
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Old 03-10-2006, 10:17 AM   #167
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by HANS
"Modern" is as vague as is "High". How is a 18th century flintlock modern?
It's after the enlightenment and therefore "modern", of course then TL7-8 should have their own book "GURPS Post-Modern".
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Old 03-10-2006, 10:49 AM   #168
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding
It's after the enlightenment and therefore "modern", of course then TL7-8 should have their own book "GURPS Post-Modern".
There's some pithy observation to be made about a gun/explosives-filled book and PoMo deconstructionist theory. I shan't be making it, though.
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:15 PM   #169
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company
There's some pithy observation to be made about a gun/explosives-filled book and PoMo deconstructionist theory. I shan't be making it, though.
You mean 'destructionist', don't you?
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Old 03-11-2006, 03:27 PM   #170
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Default Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech

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Originally Posted by Luther
So is this official?
I don't think so; but I'll add my meager voice in support of this notion. In particular, I like the "muscle/steam/fusion power" split that this would produce, as well as the implicit distinction between agricultural societies, industrial societies, and informational societies.

I do not want TL4 to be split between two books, though: either put all of it in Low Tech, or put all of it in High Tech. IMHO, including black powder weapons, etc. in the final chapter of Low Tech is no more out of place than including personal computers in the final chapter of High Tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthor
If TL4 is in the new edition of Low-Tech, I see much less of a problem filling the 240-pages with fictional and fantasy stuff. Boxes here and there can do the trick, but you can keep the book focused on historical accuracy.
Dr. Kromm has mentioned the possibility that the TL0-3 material could probably be expanded to as many as 140 pages (give or take), leaving 100 pages to be filled by other material. Bearing in mind that the existing TL4 material is heavily biased toward weapons and armor, it could definitely be added expanded by more than 10%; but would there be enough to more than triple its length (from 30 pages to 100 pages)? And even if so, would we really want to triple its length, if doing so would mean that over 40% of the book would be dedicated to TL4?

Still, I could see 50 or 60 pages dedicated to TL4, leaving a deficit of 40-50 pages to be filled with divergent low-tech stuff - preferably stuff in the "it could have been done, but wasn't" category.
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