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Old 08-28-2017, 04:48 AM   #21
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

Well, if the player wants to say it's magic letting them see instead of eyes, have them buy IT: No Eyes, and inform them that any penalties from mana levels also affect their vision. In other words, they're completely blind in No Mana Zones. Now the player wins the "ignore blindfolds" thing, and you have a counter to it as the GM.

Edit to add: IT: No Eyes (Feature: appears to have eyes) [5] and Supernatural Feature: Cannot Close Eyes [-5] balance out. Offer the player this, and see if they're willing to deal with whatever consequences never blinking may come with.

Last edited by Nereidalbel; 08-28-2017 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 08-28-2017, 06:32 AM   #22
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Having Injury Tolerance (No Eyes) is 5 points. If your Dark Vision works without being attached to your eyes, and if it's close to a full substitute for visible light vision, it's probably worth 5 points. If losing your eyes subjects you to the limitations of Dark Vision, maybe slightly less, say 4 points. If you just have a separate set of Dark Vision organs that can be targeted as readily as normal eyes, but you have to damage both to blind the person, I wouldn't call that more than 1 point. But anything outside that range is unreasonable for the kind of thing we're talking about.

But Magical, -10%, doesn't give you any of that. It gives you susceptibility to losing you Dark Vision in various ways, and that's all.
Believe it or not he quoted your book for his theory.

I will make sure to tell him what the author said.
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Having Injury Tolerance (No Eyes) is 5 points. If your Dark Vision works without being attached to your eyes, and if it's close to a full substitute for visible light vision, it's probably worth 5 points.
Doesn't IT (No Eyes) also remove the holes in your skull DR? I don't know what proportion is right, but "Has eyes but doesn't suffer visual impairment if they are damaged or covered" seems like it should cost a little less than "Doesn't have eyes" because of that.

On the other hand, it would also include "People think they can easily blind you" unless the fact that your vision is eye-independent is common knowledge.
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:59 AM   #24
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Well, if the player wants to say it's magic letting them see instead of eyes, have them buy IT: No Eyes, and inform them that any penalties from mana levels also affect their vision. In other words, they're completely blind in No Mana Zones. Now the player wins the "ignore blindfolds" thing, and you have a counter to it as the GM.
Shouldn't this also require Blind (Mitigation: Mana Dependent) [??]*?


* TLTCB (Too Lazy To Check Books)


Quote:
Edit to add: IT: No Eyes (Feature: appears to have eyes) [5] and Supernatural Feature: Cannot Close Eyes [-5] balance out. Offer the player this, and see if they're willing to deal with whatever consequences never blinking may come with.
A savvy Player will want to throw Protected Senses on there.
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

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Shouldn't this also require Blind (Mitigation: Mana Dependent) [??]*?
It should, yes. I'd call it a -70% Mitigator, much like how cybernetic prostheses are handled.
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Old 08-28-2017, 04:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
It should, yes. I'd call it a -70% Mitigator, much like how cybernetic prostheses are handled.
I'd rule it a -90% Mitigator, actually (and yes, that would reduce the points for Blind more than the usual -80% threshold - Mitigators are one of the cases where I think that's fine). The reasoning behind this is that Blind (Mitigator: Magical Sight, -90%) is mathematically equivalent to buying Blind and a countering Advantage, "Not Blind", with the -10% for the Magical power source limitation. This is essentially how Power-Ups 8: Limitations ("Limitations on Disadvantages", p. 6) recommends doing it.
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Old 08-28-2017, 04:57 PM   #27
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Darkvision

1. Does it require eyes? (On a otherwise normal human)
It requires whatever the character requires to normally see, based on other advantages, disadvatages. I consider DV different from the other spectrum vision types (IR/UV/Gamma/Radio/etc) since it just removes darkness penalties. The other visions I allow as mitigators to blindness (Not RAW) since alone they are usually worse than having no chromatic vision, but Darkvision converts darkness to monochrome "light" or full chromatic "light", so if you can't see in the visible light spectrum, then darkvision can't work either.

Quote:
2. Is it blocked by a blindfold?
Yes, as much as regular vision. A lacey garter belt used as a blindfold in a dark alley would give some slight penalties, but a solid yellow blindfold would allow no vision. Interestingly, the character can see the blindfold (even if they can't focus that close), so they can see that it's yellow. You're dealing with luminosity versus opacity. A good example for a normal person would be to be blindfolded with a couple smart phones... you can see light, but only from the thing right in fromt of your eyes.

Quote:
3. Do other vision impediments affect it?
Nearsightedness? Yup. Blindness? Yup. Fog? Yup. Bright lights contrasted against a figure in the foreground like Gandalf rescuing Rohan? Hmm. That's a good ponder point.

Quote:
4. If you have extra eyes (360 vision etc do you then see out of the extra eyes)
Yup. Unless the 360 vision or Darkvision have limitations preventing it.

Last edited by Culture20; 08-28-2017 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I'd rule it a -90% Mitigator, actually (and yes, that would reduce the points for Blind more than the usual -80% threshold - Mitigators are one of the cases where I think that's fine). The reasoning behind this is that Blind (Mitigator: Magical Sight, -90%) is mathematically equivalent to buying Blind and a countering Advantage, "Not Blind", with the -10% for the Magical power source limitation. This is essentially how Power-Ups 8: Limitations ("Limitations on Disadvantages", p. 6) recommends doing it.
Good call, that's what I was thinking of (but was too lazy to track down).
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:13 AM   #29
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

Quick drive-by:

Various questions can become clearer if you compare No Eyes, Dark Vision, and the Panoptical enhancement for 360 Vision.
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:17 AM   #30
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Default Re: Darkvision (vanilla and magic -10%)

I have a Rules question for all you GURPS gurus. Having a little trouble figuring out when to make will roll or a self control roll? Cowardice seems especially challenging
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