[Basic] So The Hulk Gets Bitten By a Werewolf Or The Multiple Alternate Form Problem

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Then you're playing by house rules.

No, it doesn't take any house rules to avoid using Alternate Form. You can do everything with Temporary Disadvantage.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

No, it doesn't take any house rules to avoid using Alternate Form. You can do everything with Temporary Disadvantage.

So is your goal to avoid Alternate Form completely? Because I think Eric is right; if you don't treat the Hulk as an Alternate Form I can't see what you ever would treat as an Alternate Form.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

So is your goal to avoid Alternate Form completely? Because I think Eric is right; if you don't treat the Hulk as an Alternate Form I can't see what you ever would treat as an Alternate Form.

The Hulk isn't an alternate form, at least in his original version, because (at least until later) there was no 'Gamma-Irradiated' race, and even when they did come up with large numbers of Gamma-Irradiated creatures, they had no particularly consistent racial template, meaning that the many of particular features of the Hulk are personal abilities, not racial abilities.

Now, if Alternate Form didn't refer to racial packages, it would be suitable -- though likely a source of major balance problems, which is why it's restricted to racial packages.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Anthony

because (at least until later) there was no 'Gamma-Irradiated' race

Racial Templates do not need to be for a "race." This is discussed explicitly in GURPS Powers and GURPS Supers. I don't care how many times you state this, you are quite simply wrong.

[scc]

And technically under GURPS rules Werewolves aren't a race, their a Meta-Trait, yet their wolf form is still a racial template

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Racial Templates do not need to be for a "race." This is discussed explicitly in GURPS Powers and GURPS Supers. I don't care how many times you state this, you are quite simply wrong.

Checking GURPS Supers p22, "A racial template is made up of advantages and disadvantages standard to a certain kind of being" and "On the other hand, racial templates can include powers if every normal member of the race has the ability in question." It's possible for "Gamma-Irradiated" to be a 'certain kind of being', but if so the package needs to include all powers common to gamma-irradiated beings, and only those powers common to gamma-irradiated beings.

Most gamma-irradiated beings have some level of super-strength, though I'm not sure the Leader does. All of them have some level of super-durability. Most of them are, however, weaker than the Hulk, which implies that any extra ST is a personal ability, not a racial ability. Likewise, the Hulk has severe IQ loss, but it appears to be something specific to him, most other gamma-irradiated beings do not suffer from that effect.

Also, "Racial templates are not powers and can’t be removed in that way." Hulk has, in fact, had his abilities removed more than once, generally causing him to revert to Banner.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Checking GURPS Supers p22,

So you found Racial Templates on p.22 but apparently not Shapeshifting on p. 28, which talks specifically about Jekyll-and-Hyde type supers. I can't think of a more Jekyll-and-Hyde type Super than The Hulk, except perhaps Mr. Hyde himself.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Also, "Racial templates are not powers and can’t be removed in that way." Hulk has, in fact, had his abilities removed more than once, generally causing him to revert to Banner.

Alternate Form, itself, can be given a Power Modifier. Disabling AF itself will cause you to revert to your base form unless you have the Once On, Stays On enhancement. Also, a specific limitation of the Hulk's AF is that his powers are largely fueled by his Rage; if you can remove his Rage he will revert to Bruce as well (and several of his reversions are either because he was put to sleep, knocked unconscious, or psychically attacked in such a way as to take away his rage).