07-02-2013, 06:45 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salodurum, Confoederatio Helvetica
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[ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
Hi guys
Once more, I feel pretty stupid because I don't understand a rule from Action 2: Exploits. On Page 37 under Sneaky Fighting, paragraph Disappearing it says that there is a basic -10 to go into stealth during combat. What does the "basic" part of this sentence imply? Are there any modifiers that would allow this "basic modifier" to be altered? Would bad lighting give a bonus to this basic -10? Would good lighting give a further penalty, lowering it even beyond -10? Thanks for reading! Cheers Onkl |
07-02-2013, 07:24 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
Low light can give a bonus, but open terrain gives -10, just look on the stealth skill.
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07-02-2013, 08:09 AM | #3 | |||
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salodurum, Confoederatio Helvetica
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
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The question came up in a game I GM'ed recently. One of my players used a smoke nageteppo and wanted to dive in shadows afterwards. I said:"Ok, take a move maneuver and roll vs. Stealth-10 at the end of your turn" which he contested, because in his opinion the smoke from the Nageteppo should provide him with a bonus to this action. In my mind this doesn't make sense, although the nageteppo helps him not getting noticed by observers with vision, it does not help him make his stealth-10 roll, because this action is depending on his ability to making the stealth-10 roll and not on bystanders not seeing him. Hope that makes sense, I'd love to hear what you think Cheers Onkl Last edited by Onkl; 07-02-2013 at 08:13 AM. |
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07-02-2013, 09:45 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
The enemy hast +10 to see someone on plain sight, like an enemy fighting. It's the same as -10 to stealth.
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07-02-2013, 10:43 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salodurum, Confoederatio Helvetica
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
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I thought this should be left to Thieves, Scouts and the like? That's why I used the rule from Action the way I described above. It is the skill of the person diving in the shadow, that enables him to stealth around unseen and shouldn't be achievable using items. Hrm Last edited by Onkl; 07-02-2013 at 10:47 AM. |
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07-02-2013, 11:13 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
Reviewing the Action rule, it works like this:
Take a Move action and get behind cover. Then roll at Stealth-10 to disappear. I wouldn't apply lighting modifiers to the roll, beyond noting that this trick works if and only if your opponents can't see you. If the only light in the room is a torch, you could get behind cover by moving more than about 15 yds away from the torch, unless the foe has Dark Vision. Alternately, if the enemy has Vibration Sense or Detect Life abilities, you can't use this ability at all unless there's some cover that shields you from those abilities. As far as Onkl's question, I'd let a ninja (or other sneaky type) use the smoke from a nageteppo create the cover that he'd use to disappear into. I probably wouldn't provide a bonus to the Disappear roll for setting off a nageteppo, though.
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07-02-2013, 11:26 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salodurum, Confoederatio Helvetica
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
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Now, the Min-Maxer in my group will try to abuse this ruling as follows: Choose Move Maneuver, Fast-Draw (Nageteppo), Drop Nageteppo (Free Action), Stealth-10 The way I see it, a Nageteppo will only work when hurled somewhere - meaning you must use an Attack Maneuver to throw the nageteppo, if only in front of your feet. What would you say? *EDIT Yeah, it says in the description of the nageteppo in DF1:25 they need to be hurled, so dropping them won't do anything. Thanks again! Last edited by Onkl; 07-02-2013 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Nageteppo need to be hurled |
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07-02-2013, 12:07 PM | #8 | |||
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
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Exactly, if he dropped, unless it's from the tenth floor, it would just stay on the ground. Alternatively, it would break and produce smoke, but then, as soon as a guy slams him, all the others would also break. |
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07-02-2013, 01:39 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Midwest, USA
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
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This is pretty off topic, but I think you're getting your answers in this thread. Hope I don't derail. First of all, Rule #1 is have fun. I hear your internal consistency argument about the Thieves and Ninjas and such, but never ever trump Rule #1. If this guy isn't a Ninja or Thief or Scout, then it's kinda out of genre, but if in the player's imagination it's cool and it will make the game more fun for him, then I would certainly try my best to work with that! You put his action at -10, "impossible," the most severe penalty (Task Difficulty, pp. B345-346), after he used a nageteppo. What would it have been without the nageteppo? Still -10. So, that was not the best game mastering decision, in my opinion. I think it would have been better to let it happen give the player a cool Batman escape scene to enjoy. If you, as the GM, think that something won't work that the player thinks will work, then before his character, in game, makes the attempt, I would hash out the disagreement! In this situation, if the smoke bomb wouldn't have helped him escape, the PC would have probably known that and would not have wasted time and the nageteppo on throwing it. That would be a reality check fail I would not want to happen in one of my games. Just my $0.02.
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07-02-2013, 02:13 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: [ACTION] Dive in Shadows during Combat
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Tags |
action, cinematic, disappearing, stealth |
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