chariot combat

[muduri]

I've been running an effectively TL1+ fantasy campaign for a while but I've always glossed over chariot combat, partly because of frequent dungeon crawls but also partly because I'm not sure how to run them. So two questions -

1) Are there RAW advantages to chariot riding? Skimmed through the Basic Set, LT and LTC but haven't seen anything explicit. But implicitly maybe there's something similar to the advantages of being mounted for melee, plus cover for the lower body for ranged? Or of course maybe there are just rules I've missed.

2) No problems with running things a bit cinematically if the realistic advantages are minimal. So if one wanted to invent (or find/exaggerate, if they already exist) combat bonuses as reasons beyond mobility to use a chariot in-game, what would they be?

3) Bonus points for thoughts on subtle changes for various chariot combinations (bigas, trigas, quadrigas; bow, javelin or melee weapon; TL1, 2 or even 3 where horseback riding is mysteriously unavailable; two, three or four riders, or even heroically driving with one hand and fighting with the other).

Would love to run the PCs through slightly-cinematized battles between Assyrians, Egyptians and Celts - known here of course as the Avalakians, Dalken and Kubora, ha. Thanks for your thoughts!

[whswhs]

You're attacking from above, which confers an advantage. You have a measure of lower body protection. You also gain at least a little mobility, though that's more helpful at getting you into melee than at maneuvering during melee.

I have the impression that a chariot was primarily a mobile missile fire platform. That's how it appears, for example, in the Mahabharata in the climactic battle, where the Lord Krsna serves as Arjuna's charioteer.

[Tomsdad]

What whswhs said.

A possible tactic is assuming a two person or more chariot, you could do a drive by wait: "attack when in range" and than hopefully be driven out of counter attack range. Of course you would be susceptible to a wait: "when that chap on the chariot is close enough Ill attack him" tactic. But that limits the responders movement.

A 3+ person chariot allows one driver, one main combatant and a shield man who with shield wall perk and taking All Out Defence options can defend the main chap pretty well, as well as protection from the bodywork.


Chariots are bigger and more awkward than horses so I'd take a view on effects of that on reach. Even if the chariot is too awkward to make melee attacks feasible you could do close range drive by bow attacks without worrying about bulk pens

[cptbutton]

I've always heard that one of the advantages chariots have over horses is they work with horses too small to ride, which was handy before horses were bred to be big enough to ride.

So it may be less a chariot warrior is better than a horse riding warrior thing and more a matter of making the best use of what you can get horsewise thing.

[johndallman]

You'll want the Chariot Archery technique from p136 of Fantasy, and maybe a Chariot Training perk based on Naval Training, from p6 of Power-Ups 6: Perks.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

I've always heard that one of the advantages chariots have over horses is they work with horses too small to ride, which was handy before horses were bred to be big enough to ride.

So it may be less a chariot warrior is better than a horse riding warrior thing and more a matter of making the best use of what you can get horsewise thing.

I think this is the main reality - chariots largely vanished as history went on because cavalry was a superior substitute once the necessary meatware was available.

EDIT: Bear in mind too that chariots are wheeled vehicles, with hard wheels and primitive-at-best suspension. They can't have been nice, stable, or even safe to ride on less-than-ideal ground.

[DanHoward]

There is a section in the Armor Loadouts book (p. 8) with rules for Bronze Age chariot warfare.

Historically, until the very end of the Bronze Age, all chariots from China to the Aegean were archery platforms. Right at the end of the BA, chariots started to be used as a vehicle for javelin-wielding skirmishers and as the "battle taxis" described by Homer and Caesar. The heavy chariots used for shock tactics never existed until TL2 and the reforms attributed to Cyrus.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

I've always heard that one of the advantages chariots have over horses is they work with horses too small to ride, which was handy before horses were bred to be big enough to ride.

This myth has been debunked since the 1960s but, for some reason, few people have bothered to look at this body of work. Horses have been perfectly capable of being ridden since before the development of chariots. Powell wrote a good overview of the issue back in 1971:

T.G.E. Powell, "The introduction of horse-riding to temperate Europe: a contributory note", Proceedings of the Prehistoric Society, Vol. 37, Part 2 (1971), pp. 1–15.

I've collected the best studies and written a chapter on chariot warfare and the transition to cavalry in my book.
https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Bron...uipment/p/3272

[muduri]

Thanks all, that's very useful! So main advantages the sacrificial block of your shieldman, protective screening from the bodywork and attacking from above if you do get into melee? And of course higher move. Fair enough.

As long as we're at it, any thoughts on the relative advantages of light/heavy chariots and bigas / trigas / quadrigas? Maybe one more point of screening from the heavy chariot, and what, higher move but lower stability for more horses?

Also, what happens if your driver's been picked off - would it be akin to having one person simultaneously flying the ship and firing the weapons in Spaceships? Don't remember the exact rules but could look it up when I get back.

Ah, and what would one roll to spike or scythe through enemies with your wheels? DX-based Teamster ±Hnd maybe?

[muduri]

Also, sad to hear that horses have always been ridable - it's good that the Kubora and Dalken don't have access to that scholarship because it would render at least one PC quest unnecessary, haha.