Gurps Battletech-the human element

[Fred Brackin]

I wanted to start a discussion about the Battletech universe without getting bogged down in discussing how to build 'Mechs.

First would be the question of how cinematic people thought it was leaving aside the technology. There are a few instances of cinematic skills (or something like them) in the novels.

Most prominent is one seen 3 or 4 times (centering around the Kell brothers) with 3 different users that looks like Invisibility Art ('Mechs only) achieved through some sort of Zen state of mind. Very odd but it was in there.

Also while the Draconis Combine has fake/techno "ninja" like the DEST there was at least one appearance of "real" ninja who were much more skilled. No, I can't remember exactly where. I read a lot of this stuff once upon a time.

There were also a number of very hard-core martial artists who may or may not have had TBAM and used some of the less flashy cinematic skills. Tactical Shooters too if maybe not Gun Fu types. This is in addition to the possibility of 'Mech-based Styles.

Then there's Clan genotypes. Racial Templates for Clan "Mechwarriors and Pilots are not terribly urgent. At less than ridiculous point totals they're going to look a lot like regular humans built by their players for the same jobs on the same amount of points.

Elementals are a different matter. First off you need an explanation for _why_ it's advantageous to have your battlesuits piloted by giants. I think it might be time for a House Rule.

What I propose is a new classification of armor that I call "Personal". Personal would cover armor more protective than Flexible but less substantial than Vehicular. Under this rule every 10 pts of Crushing or 20 pts of Piercing, cutting or Impaling damage stopped by DR still results in 1 pt of Blunt trauma.

We know that Clan Elemental armor largely protects from .59 BMG or something very much like it (possibly even the 15mm from UT) but if it just bounced off there would be no need for pilots with very high HP.

So you would produce Elementals to have very high HP enabling them to survive at least twice as much blunt trauma as normal humans.

There's also a style Perk for Sumo in the Martial Arts book that lets Sumotori of (basically) weights between 340 and 540 lbs buy 2x as many HP. It struck me a while ago that this just happened to probably be the right weight range for Elementals.

We also need way to push Elemental ST tot he max. Unfortunately they are still genetically human and thus can only be given +2 ST through Eugenic modification. ST 22 might be enough (perhaps with some Lift Strike Special Exercise Perks on top of that) but we're going to need to put that last +10 on a Training Template.

This might be justified/explained by something like Resistant +3 v. Super-steroid side effects on the genetic template or Elemental HT could be just +3 base with Very Fit and (maybe) +3 v. Poison.

Then you add the 2x HP Perk and your Elementals are ST 20-22, HP 40-44 and weigh 340lbs and up. The cp to pay for this are going to push other Occupational templates pretty high if all PCs get the same number.

There would be quite a few other things on an Elemental Template like Combat Reflexes, HPT and similar combative Ads. We could be looking at a very high cp total game even if Cinematic skills are not "normally" available to PCs.

There is the side benefit that if all PCs are built on more cp than contemporary seals it would explain why they get tagged for all the adventure-style missions.

Eh, it's late and this might be a start but I welcome anyone else's thought on these and similar subjects.

[scc]

First off, yeah using GURPS for the hardware parts of a BT/MW is going to fail, but it would be good at providing the the social layer BT/MW lacks.

What you call Invisibility Art ('Mechs only) is actually called Phantom 'Mech Ability and it's not something the PC's should ever so much as SEE outside possibly the final boss.

Your Ninja is most likely the Bounty Hunter his rides are possibly some of the most powerful designs ever seen. Again not something you should worry about happening.

The in-universe explanation for Elementals is that you NEED to be that big to move the suit.

[GodBeastX]

Having Elementals big makes sense because power armor still has encumbrance.

If you look at the strength bonuses from Dreadnought and Battlesuit armors from Ultratech, they amplify strength alot, yes, but look at the encumbrance.

Taking Dreadnought armor, for example, its 500 lbs! With the +30 lifting strength, that is light encumbrance! But if you have 20 ST you get just enough basic lift with the armor's to be able to move without encumbrace. If you go above that...

And yes, the hit points are advantageous. You may not be able to take all the punishment of artillery mech weapons, but 20 hp vs 10 HP is twice the survival rate!

"When we use these big monstrous dudes, our soldiers tend to come back alive!"

Also it makes for a Rule of Cool moment. Nobody wants to open a suit meant for the rigors of war and find a scrawny nerd inside =)


As for cinematic, Battletech is 100% full of Cinematic rules. In fact the first thing they tell you is "Battletech is not even TRYING to model reality! Just have fun!" <--- That pretty much says "Yeah, we make stuff up".

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Also while the Draconis Combine has fake/techno "ninja" like the DEST there was at least one appearance of "real" ninja who were much more skilled. No, I can't remember exactly where. I read a lot of this stuff once upon a time.

There were also a number of very hard-core martial artists who may or may not have had TBAM and used some of the less flashy cinematic skills. Tactical Shooters too if maybe not Gun Fu types. This is in addition to the possibility of 'Mech-based Styles.

Likewise, I read the odd Battletech novel back in the day, and I recall one character practising Zen Archery.

[Flyndaran]

Biotech allows genetic strength adjustments to be magnified by linear size and 1.5 is listed as NOT species modification.
Lean muscular Andre The Giant as a petite example.

[Wavefunction]

I don't know the source material, but if you twink out a bit in Bio-Tech you can get Skeletal Strengthening + Bone Stimulation, allowing you to get up to +10 ST from Muscle Reinforcement and +8 ST from Muscle Grafts. You also get +5 Lifting ST just from Skeletal Strengthening. Add in Super Steroids and a racial +2, and you get +27 lifting ST. Assume they're trained extensively, and they're walking around with Lifting ST 40, clearly silly, but that's an example of the maximum.

[Emerald Cat]

Well, I'd personally try to build the mechs as gadget limited Alternate Forms. I'm not sure how well that would work though. It heavily breaks suspension of disbelief for the pilots to consistently lose limbs just because their mech's limb was destroyed...

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Emerald Cat

Well, I'd personally try to build the mechs as gadget limited Alternate Forms. I'm not sure how well that would work though. It heavily breaks suspension of disbelief for the pilots to consistently lose limbs just because their mech's limb was destroyed...

The Reciprocal Rest enhancement or a variant of it (No Reciprocal Damage?) seems a good way to model that. The damage taken to one form does not transfer to the other form, basically.

"The Captain's Boat" actually suggested building personalized aerofighters, starfighters, and mecha as Allies, with a base Ally value of 5 points, which may fit for MechWarriors.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

Having Elementals big makes sense because power armor still has encumbrance.

If you look at the strength bonuses from Dreadnought and Battlesuit armors from Ultratech, they amplify strength alot, yes, but look at the encumbrance.

Taking Dreadnought armor, for example, its 500 lbs! With the +30 lifting strength, that is light encumbrance! But if you have 20 ST you get just enough basic lift with the armor's to be able to move without encumbrace. If you go above that...
".

UT says that the weight of powered armor _doesn't_ count as Encumbrance (except for the helmet sometimes, I don't know why). Anyway, neding the elemntals to move the armor doesn't make sense.

As tot eh rest of the personal scale technology, BT and UT have a lot of the usual suspects in common. beides the lasers and slugthrowers there's vibroblades, neurolashes, sonic stunners, flamers, gyrocs and maybe more.

There's only limited Gauss weaponry and the needlers are going to need work to make any sense. I would probably use only the smaller Gauss Needlers and double their ROF and give it a # as seen in "Very High ROF" in HT. this would effectively halve RCL and possibly give you enough hits to make up for the P- factor that makes regular Gauss weapons suck.

I would probably make "Mechs IQ 0 Allies and hang the heavier UT weaponry off of Weapon Mounts. Converting BT designs based on some conversion formulas to pts-based Gurps creations would give you a higher diversity of size, movement and other stats than some alternatives such as Spaceships or David Pulver's Modular Mecha Pyramid article though that last one might do alright for Gurps Macross.

[GodBeastX]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

UT says that the weight of powered armor _doesn't_ count as Encumbrance (except for the helmet sometimes, I don't know why). Anyway, neding the elemntals to move the armor doesn't make sense.

As tot eh rest of the personal scale technology, BT and UT have a lot of the usual suspects in common. beides the lasers and slugthrowers there's vibroblades, neurolashes, sonic stunners, flamers, gyrocs and maybe more.

There's only limited Gauss weaponry and the needlers are going to need work to make any sense. I would probably use only the smaller Gauss Needlers and double their ROF and give it a # as seen in "Very High ROF" in HT. this would effectively halve RCL and possibly give you enough hits to make up for the P- factor that makes regular Gauss weapons suck.

I would probably make "Mechs IQ 0 Allies and hang the heavier UT weaponry off of Weapon Mounts. Converting BT designs based on some conversion formulas to pts-based Gurps creations would give you a higher diversity of size, movement and other stats than some alternatives such as Spaceships or David Pulver's Modular Mecha Pyramid article though that last one might do alright for Gurps Macross.

Oh does it? Guess I missed that blurb. Thanks!