Skills From Default

Colarmel · 03-15-2018, 10:05 PM

So, near as I can tell, there are no rules in the DFRPG for improving skills from default. Understandably, since keeping track of all your defaults can be a pain.

But say someone has Staff 21 and DX 16 and has WM (Staff). He runs into a slugbeast, which convinces him he needs another option, so he picks up a heavy spear. He eventually drops the points into Weaponmaster (Staffs and Spears (or something)) His skill from default is 19, more than enough to qualify for the Weapon Master bonus. But technically he has to know the skill. Can he put a point in it so he knows it, and use it with the damage bonus at default skill? Or does he need to bring Spear up to 18 the old fashioned way?

JMason · 03-16-2018, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colarmel

Can he put a point in it so he knows it, and use it with the damage bonus at default skill? Or does he need to bring Spear up to 18 the old fashioned way?

Your either using the default or your not. In this case I think you'd have to buy the skill up. Think of it as having to relearn something from the ground up in order to gain the benefits that come with skill proficiency.

Kromm · 03-16-2018, 08:05 AM

I omitted improving skills from skill-to-skill defaults because, in GURPS, it was easily #3 – after "vehicle design" and "custom abilities" – on the "stuff the average player finds more annoying than fun" list. (Yes, people here will disagree, but remember that these forums self-select for diehard players, contributors, and staff who don't mind doing the math!)

Thus, the official, canonical answer for the DFRPG is that if you want the special benefits of a skill, which definitely includes damage bonuses, you must spend at least one point on the skill (Adventurers, p. 71). So if you have Staff at DX+10 and want to go around attacking things using Spear at Staff-2, or DX+8, that's fine . . . but that's just your roll to hit. You won't be able to enjoy the benefits of Weapon Master, even if it covers spears, until you've put at least one point in Spear. Once you do, though, I'd be happy enough to allow the skill to function at the higher level for all purposes.

That said, if you want to add GURPS back in and improve skills from default, it's your game. You paid for it, you're gaming with your friends, and I am not going to send minions for you in the night! So go right ahead.

Colarmel · 03-16-2018, 12:42 PM

This is more or less what I figured.

In my normal games we do a lot of rule zero and roll and shout. I think it makes things a lot more fun.

But I also play in a strict RAW game, and there was some question in my mind over whether strict RAW would drop a skill below its default when you put a point in it.

Thanks for the answer Kromm.

~~evileeyore~~ · 03-16-2018, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yes, people here will disagree, but remember that these forums self-select for diehard players, contributors, and staff who don't mind doing the math!

I personally don't disagree at all. In fact every time a Player mentions wanting to buy a skill up from default I give them the ole stink eye... because I have go and relearn how to do it (for some reason it's just not intuitive to me at all).

martinl · 03-17-2018, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

... and I am not going to send minions for you in the night! ...

Are the rules compliance minions on strike again?

Kromm · 03-17-2018, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinl

Are the rules compliance minions on strike again?

Nope. They just don't work nights. They're sticklers about the wording of their contract.

DouglasCole · 03-17-2018, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore

I personally don't disagree at all. In fact every time a Player mentions wanting to buy a skill up from default I give them the ole stink eye... because I have go and relearn how to do it (for some reason it's just not intuitive to me at all).

Best argument for incorporating d4s into GURPS.

corwyn · 03-20-2018, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kromm

That said, if you want to add GURPS back in and improve skills from default, it's your game. You paid for it, you're gaming with your friends, and I am not going to send minions for you in the night! So go right ahead.

Now, that kind of talk isn't going to do your conspiratorial necromancer reputation any good.

malloyd · 03-21-2018, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corwyn

Now, that kind of talk isn't going to do your conspiratorial necromancer reputation any good.

Why bother to send minions when this sin already binds your soul to eternal servitude when you die? Sheesh, what sort of evil necromancer cares what you do while you are still living?

03-15-2018, 10:05 PM	#1
Colarmel Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Northeast Kansas	Skills From Default So, near as I can tell, there are no rules in the DFRPG for improving skills from default. Understandably, since keeping track of all your defaults can be a pain. But say someone has Staff 21 and DX 16 and has WM (Staff). He runs into a slugbeast, which convinces him he needs another option, so he picks up a heavy spear. He eventually drops the points into Weaponmaster (Staffs and Spears (or something)) His skill from default is 19, more than enough to qualify for the Weapon Master bonus. But technically he has to know the skill. Can he put a point in it so he knows it, and use it with the damage bonus at default skill? Or does he need to bring Spear up to 18 the old fashioned way?

03-16-2018, 12:42 PM	#4
Colarmel Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Northeast Kansas	Re: Skills From Default This is more or less what I figured. In my normal games we do a lot of rule zero and roll and shout. I think it makes things a lot more fun. But I also play in a strict RAW game, and there was some question in my mind over whether strict RAW would drop a skill below its default when you put a point in it. Thanks for the answer Kromm.

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03-16-2018, 08:05 AM	#3
Kromm *GURPS* Line Editor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Re: Skills From Default I omitted improving skills from skill-to-skill defaults because, in *GURPS,* it was easily #3 – after "vehicle design" and "custom abilities" – on the "stuff the average player finds more annoying than fun" list. (Yes, people here will disagree, but remember that these forums self-select for diehard players, contributors, and staff who don't mind doing the math!) Thus, the official, canonical answer for the *DFRPG* is that if you want the special benefits of a skill, which definitely includes damage bonuses, you must spend at least one point on the skill (*Adventurers,* p. 71). So if you have Staff at DX+10 and want to go around attacking things using Spear at Staff-2, or DX+8, that's fine . . . but that's just your roll to hit. You won't be able to enjoy the benefits of Weapon Master, even if it covers spears, until you've put at least one point in Spear. Once you do, though, I'd be happy enough to allow the skill to function at the higher level for all purposes. That said, if you want to add *GURPS* back in and improve skills from default, it's your game. You paid for it, you're gaming with your friends, and I am not going to send minions for you in the night! So go right ahead. __________________ Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> *GURPS* Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just *GURPS* News]