10-10-2022, 11:42 PM | #91 | ||||
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
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Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
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And, similarly, if that is what Bestial means it might be difficult to use in game terms, because it's hard to get from that to what difference having those abstract concepts, as opposed to having just learnt from experience that people make a fuss if you do certain things, would make in terms of what the animal actually does.
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10-11-2022, 09:04 AM | #92 |
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
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Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
It almost seems like Bestial is basically just a "odius personal habit (behaves like a wild animal)" combined with an appropriate belief system of "I have no idea what 'civilized' even means." All rolled together into one trait?
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10-11-2022, 09:47 AM | #93 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
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I still haven't seen a reason to separate domestic from wild animals. Wild animals can learn which leaves usually not attacking humans. That doesn't seem to be worth 15 points. Wild animal learn behaviors at least as complex and in many cases very similar to the ones you're referring to. I was watching the nature show Cumberbach narrated yesterday and many of those wild animals got more training than the pets I'm living with. Last edited by naloth; 10-11-2022 at 09:50 AM. |
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10-12-2022, 07:27 AM | #94 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
An easier approach is to say that if a wild animal learns "civilized" manners it has bought off Bestial.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
10-12-2022, 03:07 PM | #95 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
... which is what distinction? Farm animals are supposedly "civilized" but I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take much for a sow or bull to want to hurt you. Besides "manners" is small and very subjective component of Beastial. As mentioned previously mentioned, humans from different areas often consider various behaviors suitably uncivilized just based on social norms.
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12-01-2022, 10:41 PM | #96 | |
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Hampshire, USA
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Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
After some thought and reading through things I created this meta-trait.
Animalistic Intelligence: Non-Linguistic* [-10*], Non-Iconographic [-10], TL 0** [var (-40 at tl 8)], Innumerate [-5], Hidebound [-5], Dyslexia [-10]. *: Non-Linguistic is a trait that doesn't exist but aught to. It's essentially Dyslexic or Non-Iconographic but for verbal language: Quote:
On top of that animals do mostly have reduced intelligence. The average domestic dog has intelligence equivalent to a human toddler between the ages of 2.5 and 5 depending on the toddler in question and the dog in question. An ordinary IQ for a 5 year old is 7. Assuming that some portion of the difference in intelligence can be accounted for by the host of cognitive disadvantages the dog has, I'd error on giving the dog an IQ appropriate to the higher end of that. If you add the above trait to an IQ 7 creature you have a very convincing "dog" level of intelligence. Adding +3 to most animals IQs while keeping their perceptions and wills, and adding the above traits, seems to track, IMO. Such an animal very capable of learning social skills like Savoire Faire (dog), Body Language (mammals), intimidate, leadership, gesture, and perhaps even a highly specialized version of psychology. It's capable of navigating to the extent you can navigate without maps and equipment and assuming it's had the oppertunity to learn, it probably has area knowledge of the environment it lives in if allowed to roam freely, it almost definitely has weather sense, wolves even use a form of tactics for complex and coordinated divide and conquer ambushes. But it's skill levels are going to be at a 'precocious toddler' level for anything that it can't justify shunting over to it's perception score instead of it's IQ (which animals are prone to doing, for example with the weather sense skill.) Note that many animals also have traits like Impulsive, that manners are a relatively modern invention and animals are likely to have odious personal habits we excuse because we don't hold them to our standards, and that wild animals are likely all suffering from some form of trauma from living in a perpetual eat or be eaten wilderness survival scenario* that combines with other racial personality traits to create the behaviors that the "Bestial" trait is likely referencing. *: this is conjecture based on the evidence that people often develop complex long term trauma from survival scenarios, and scenarios in which things might regularly try to hurt or kill them, and that animals can develop PTSD, including complex PTSD, as well. |
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