Help with Converting D&D 4E Stats

[Propjock]

I'm sure this has been discussed but I just can't find a topic about converting some D&D4e monsters to GURPS. I'm fine with finding the GURPS equivalent for powers/advantages/etc, but was wanting some advice about the core stats (STR, CON, DEX, INT etc).

I know the D&D stats are 3D6 (at least for PC classes), but I don't think 10 represents the average person's abilities like in GURPS. Also D&D success checks don't work on the bell curve so I'm thinking that straight translation of stats to GURPS would be wrong. Anyone with some good rules of thumbs. Note I don't actually own D&D 4e rules so I can't easily refer to them. I'm going mostly by what I remember from D&D 2e.

Thanks in advance.

[Dwarf99]

the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy stats will help you with characters. Jurgen Hubert has a database which I think is called the GURPS Repository

[Varyon]

An "average person" in D&D has average stats of right around 10.5, which is close enough to 10. A generic rule of thumb for converting such stats is that every +1 bonus (or -1 penalty) from a stat is comparable to +1 (or -1) to a given GURPS stat - so a character with Dex 15 (a +2 bonus) in D&D would have around DX 12 in GURPS.

Note, of course, that the stats from D&D and the stats from GURPS map a bit differently. Here's a quick breakdown.

D&D
Strength: Damage, carrying capacity, and how well you use melee weapons.
Constitution: HP, Fortitude saves (against poisons and the like)
Dexterity: Reaction speed, fine motor skills, Reflex saves (dodges and the like), how difficult you are to hit, and how well you use ranged weapons (or certain melee weapons with the appropriate Feat).
Intelligence: Cerebral skills, how many skills you can master, and spellcasting capability (for book-mage types)
Wisdom: Perception and related skills, Will saves (against mind control and the like), spellcasting capability (for nature types)
Charisma: Social skills, general appearance/likeability, spellcasting capability (for everyone else)

GURPS
Strength: Damage, carrying capacity, and HP
Dexterity: Reaction speed, physical skills, and combat skills
Intelligence: Cerebral skills, social skills, spellcasting capability; also includes Perception and Will, below
-Perception: Skills related to noticing things, Sense rolls
-Will: Resisting fear and supernatural (or cinematic) influences
Health: Resistance to poisons and similar, ability to keep going despite poor conditions, and reaction speed


So, if we look at the above, Str and ST map decently well to each other, Dex and DX aren't too far off (although DX includes some of the bits Str held, namely melee combat ability), and Con is pretty close to HT (although ST determines HP instead of Con doing so). Int, Wis, and Cha are all subsumed into IQ, with Wis mapping to both of IQ's subattributes, Per and Will.

All told, I'd say you can do fairly well simply mapping the physical traits to their GURPS equivalent. For mental traits, Int should probably be handled as IQ! (every +1 IQ! is +1 IQ [20] and -1 Per [-5] and -1 Will [-5]) perhaps with a Social Disadvantage of some sort, Wis should be handled as both Per and Will bought up separately from IQ, and Cha would be a combination of GURPS Advantages - Charisma is obvious, but Appearance, Reputation, and Social Regard can all cover the same bases.

[Bruno]

A big note: You do NOT roll your stats on 3d6 in 4e D&D, nor do you test against them with 3d6. This is pretty darn significant!

The actual number (3, 7, 22, whatever) isn't important in 4e. It's the modifier that's the real attribute. It's the one you use on dice rolls, the one that ends up in derived traits (like your defences and skills), and the only one that matters for game mechanics.

It's also worth nothing that while you might generate your character with dice, but it's pretty darn important that 4e recommends point-builds, and if you want to go with rolling them instead, 4e says 4d6-drop-one, not 3d6. Player characters average closer to 11s and 12s, not 10s. By the recommended character generation rules, player characters never have an attribute below 8 either. This edition of D&D is quite different from the others - don't let the superficial similarity of the attribute number fool you!

In general when converting, I'd go with 10+(attribute modifier + level modifier) to create the derived stat, or just 10+the flat modifier you see in monster blocks (which is the attribute+level modifier already merged).

You also really have to watch out for Strength - Strength in D&D includes melee combat prowess, which GURPS doesn't include, and doesn't make you any hale or heartier, which GURPS ST does.

D&D typically has some huge STR monsters with low DEX - they're easy to hit in melee combat, they don't dodge out of the way of dodgable spell effects, and they can't throw things worth a damn. But they're effectively masters of the attack they use. They don't get a huge pile of bonus HP for that high STR either - that's CON based!
My recommendation is to watch out for these STR-based monsters and remember to get their skill up somewhere in the 15 range at the least, possibly quite higher depending on the "level" of the monster. You may also want to trade in some of that raw ST for Striking ST or Arm ST where it seems appropriate; generally I'd let that one fall out as per the GURPS rules rather than sweating the original effects too closely but it's worth watching for cases where that is more sensible.

There's a similar, but weirder, problem with various other powers/attacks in 4e - CON based attacks using CON for to-hit and damage bonus is a particularly brain-hurty thing to try and convert for me. Fortunately with monsters I don't really care what attribute those numbers came from, I'm more interested in the results.

As a side note, I usually just read armour bonuses to AC as an approximate DR from some combo of natural DR, magic, and equipment; this has served me well for many a quick conversion :)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Bruno

The actual number (3, 7, 22, whatever) isn't important in 4e. It's the modifier that's the real attribute. It's the one you use on dice rolls, the one that ends up in derived traits (like your defences and skills), and the only one that matters for game mechanics.

4e completely dropped odd number prerequisites too?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

4e completely dropped odd number prerequisites too?

I sit corrected! I somehow have never noticed any attribute prerequisites in 4e before.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I sit corrected! I somehow have never noticed any attribute prerequisites in 4e before.

Were there any prereqs for "Class Powers" or whatever those were? There weren't any Feats.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Were there any prereqs for "Class Powers" or whatever those were? There weren't any Feats.

I'm fairly sure there were prerequisites for some feats, I'll check later tonight.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Were there any prereqs for "Class Powers" or whatever those were? There weren't any Feats.

Just the correct level and membership in the right class. Some have additional rider effects that you need to have the right "build" (subclass basically) to work.

[The Benj]

So why do you want to do this?