When to discard during combat

[Herpopotamus]

Originally Posted by Clipper

It seems straight forward to me, Andrew and I have no arguments. I certainly don't have any issue with the timing. It just adds a minor bit of bookkeeping, remembering which discarded cards were played during the combat in case a return the cards to owners' hands comes up, and remembering how many instances of a monster have been present (to calculate Treasure) if a defeated monster card is drawn from the discards and then added back into the same combat which it had already been discarded from.

You could place the discarded cards in a "pseudo-discard" pile until the combat was over. This pile would be treated as if it was the top cards of the actual discard pile to maintain consistency of game mechanics but would ease bookkeeping.

Additionally, I would like to ask which card would go on top, the monster that was discarded or the card that caused it to be discarded? I know that at the end of combat the order in which the slew of cards associated by that combat is determined by the player whose turn it is, but is that also true for cards that cause cards of the same type (treasure or door) to be discarded, regardless of combat?

EDIT: Also I am looking forward to seeing Andrew Hackard on Geek and Sundry's Tabletop segment next week :D:D:D

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Herpopotamus

Additionally, I would like to ask which card would go on top, the monster that was discarded or the card that caused it to be discarded? I know that at the end of combat the order in which the slew of cards associated by that combat is determined by the player whose turn it is, but is that also true for cards that cause cards of the same type (treasure or door) to be discarded?

Yes. That's unambiguous and the easiest rule to enforce.

Originally Posted by Herpopotamus

EDIT: Also I am looking forward to seeing Andrew Hackard on Geek and Sundry's Tabletop segment next week :D:D:D

There's at least one moment in that game that I'm going to apologize for right now. You'll know it when you hear it.

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Herpopotamus

You could place the discarded cards in a "pseudo-discard" pile until the combat was over. This pile would be treated as if it was the top cards of the actual discard pile to maintain consistency of game mechanics but would ease bookkeeping.

Yeah, that's how I was planning to treat this anyway. It's similar to how I've been treating my games already, I just was never sure until now whether to treat the pseudo-discards as being part of the discard pile or not.

[BoringInfoGuy]

Originally Posted by Clipper

I don't believe either of these would work. Potion of Halitosis tells you it gives +2 to either side or it kills the Floating Nose. If you could do both effects, it would use 'and' rather than 'or'. When it is played, the player decides which effect it has, choosing a side to get a bonus or if it kills the Floating Nose, not any combination of the effects.

Oops, missed that. That is what I get by going off of memory instead of checking the card wording before posting.

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by BoringInfoGuy

Oops, missed that. That is what I get by going off of memory instead of checking the card wording before posting.

Yeah, I fell into that same trap many times when I first started reading and posting on these forums. It's why I started maintaining a personal database of all the text on the cards I have bought. It takes an hour or two per deck, but it makes it so much easier to attempt to answer questions, that the past investment is well worth it.

[BoringInfoGuy]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

The official answer is that cards that no longer affect the combat, such as Pollymorphed monsters, are discarded immediately, while cards that still do affect the combat, such as one-shots, stay until the combat is over.

I eagerly* await the onslaught of "but this causes timing problems!" responses I am certain to get.

* Perhaps not so eagerly.

Originally Posted by Herpopotamus

You could place the discarded cards in a "pseudo-discard" pile until the combat was over. This pile would be treated as if it was the top cards of the actual discard pile to maintain consistency of game mechanics but would ease bookkeeping.

Additionally, I would like to ask which card would go on top, the monster that was discarded or the card that caused it to be discarded? I know that at the end of combat the order in which the slew of cards associated by that combat is determined by the player whose turn it is, but is that also true for cards that cause cards of the same type (treasure or door) to be discarded, regardless of combat?

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Yes. That's unambiguous and the easiest rule to enforce.

Just a couple of follow up questions.

Would a Munchkin discarding cards to use a class ability such as Berserking or Backstab choose the order the cards are discarded, or would that still be the option of the Munchkin who kicked open the door?

If a Reset Combat card is played that returns cards in play back to the original owners, would that include any cards discarded to fuel class abilities?

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by BoringInfoGuy

Just a couple of follow up questions.

Would a Munchkin discarding cards to use a class ability such as Berserking or Backstab choose the order the cards are discarded, or would that still be the option of the Munchkin who kicked open the door?

This is how I interpret it, due to other rulings on these actions:

With Backstabbing, the Thief will choose as he can only perform one Backstab at a time as per the wording of the ability. He performs the first Backstab, then he performs the next. With Berserking, the Warrior can choose to discard all his cards at once, or he can choose to do it in three separate actions. If he discards all three cards at once, then the turn player would decide the order as per the rule. If he decides to split up his usage of Berserking to three separate discards at +1 each, then the Warrior would be deciding the order.

If a Reset Combat card is played that returns cards in play back to the original owners, would that include any cards discarded to fuel class abilities?

I'd say yes, simply to avoid the bookkeeping, but that's just my opinion. I suppose you could turn cards sideways if you are maintaining a pile of quasi-discards, but that's beginning to seem a bit fiddly.

[BoringInfoGuy]

Originally Posted by Clipper

This is how I interpret it, due to other rulings on these actions:

With Backstabbing, the Thief will choose as he can only perform one Backstab at a time as per the wording of the ability. He performs the first Backstab, then he performs the next. With Berserking, the Warrior can choose to discard all his cards at once, or he can choose to do it in three separate actions. If he discards all three cards at once, then the turn player would decide the order as per the rule. If he decides to split up his usage of Berserking to three separate discards at +1 each, then the Warrior would be deciding the order.

I suppose that technically, the Berserking Warrior could always claim to have his usages of Beserk split up if it mattered. "I discard to increase by one. Hmmm, should I use a one shot or discard another. . . I choose to discard another. Is that enough? Guess that I could use this item, or discard the halfling card. Hmmm. . . Ok, I discard a third card."

Originally Posted by Clipper

I'd say yes, simply to avoid the bookkeeping, but that's just my opinion. I suppose you could turn cards sideways if you are maintaining a pile of quasi-discards, but that's beginning to seem a bit fiddly.

If any combination of card interactions would allow a cleric to draw during combat, then turning a card sideways would create other problems. A quasi discard pile for the combat would be fine, as long as all players know that the top of the quasi pile counts as the true top of the discards.

BTW, just realized what your avatar is. THAT song is now stuck in my head.

"When you're in trouble he will save the day,
He's strong and he's fearless come what may.
Without him the mission would go astray."

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by BoringInfoGuy

I suppose that technically, the Berserking Warrior could always claim to have his usages of Beserk split up if it mattered. "I discard to increase by one. Hmmm, should I use a one shot or discard another. . . I choose to discard another. Is that enough? Guess that I could use this item, or discard the halfling card. Hmmm. . . Ok, I discard a third card."

Yep, that's what I meant when I said he splits them into three +1 discards.

If any combination of card interactions would allow a cleric to draw during combat, then turning a card sideways would create other problems. A quasi discard pile for the combat would be fine, as long as all players know that the top of the quasi pile counts as the true top of the discards.

By sideways, I mean sideways in the quasi-discard pile. That way you can tell which ones to return to owners hands if a reset and return cards card is played, while still maintaining the order of the discard pile. I still think it's all a bit too fiddly to bother with that, but then again, I guess if you discard your Race during combat or something, you really shouldn't get it back with a return played cards effect, so you might need to...

BTW, just realized what your avatar is. THAT song is now stuck in my head.

"When you're in trouble he will save the day,
He's strong and he's fearless come what may.
Without him the mission would go astray."

Thanks. Surprisingly, I was using Rimmer Munchkin as an avatar on other forums even before I fell in love with the game. Of course, he wasn't holding the cards then, but I couldn't resist giving him that extra Munchkin twist when I joined.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by BoringInfoGuy

If a Reset Combat card is played that returns cards in play back to the original owners, would that include any cards discarded to fuel class abilities?

It depends on the wording of the card that resets the combat. If it specifies "all cards played return to their owners," then the discards stay discarded - discarding a card is not playing a card. But other wordings may lead to different answers, and I'm too tired to dig through the database right now to find all the possibilities.