12-03-2018, 08:58 AM | #41 | ||||||||||||||
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
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Probably not. I'd guess 9 times out of 10 thats a euphemism for throwing up. Quote:
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Yes. The Last Gasp kills rapid movement. Quote:
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You're correct. Though I notice that unless you make a deceptive attack or feint it doesn't apply at all. Which is pretty much the opposite of what you're doing right now, mr. telegraphic DWA. You're doing a crazy fist swinging charge hoping to overwhelm my ability to defend. Quote:
If you have two attacks and make them in the same turn, I don't why not. Quote:
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That's not weird, that makes sense. Gathering your strength for a burst of activity rather than constantly fighting. And its a case for only burning FP at 0 AP being a bad idea. Or if you combine it with PIF, its the last spasm of desperation before they have to give up. Quote:
Yes, its a strong one. It think these are better done as will checks than HT checks. Though both would possibly work. Quote:
There is a school of thought in which missed attacks don't even involve a swing: they looked for an opportunity and didn't see one, or the started one and the opponent showed the ability to counter, so they didn't swing. And the expert countering the novice's wild attacks with minimal effort is a trope and a classic. I'm a little disgruntled at just how directly such a ruling would support your current tactics. Quote:
I do not find that criticals are a significant part of the game, and the .01 MoS really effect deceptive attacks, which are a major part of high-skill play.
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12-05-2018, 03:56 AM | #42 | ||||||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
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Against those who end up burning an FP and need to make the roll, yeah. Quote:
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Velocity/Momentum rules for swimming should maybe be a little different than running too, in terms of AP spent on maintaining full move. Quote:
I'm a little disgruntled at just how directly such a ruling would support your current tactics. Deceptive attacks can also be "speedy" attacks, attacking at weird/inefficient angles, kinda makes sense they'd take more energy to do. If each 0.2 more you pay on average costs the defender 0.2 more on average it would balance out. Some kind of IQ-based "I'm just better at timing" mitigation of AP would make sense though. I wonder if taking the "Feint" route to that could work better. |
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12-06-2018, 08:46 AM | #43 | ||||||||
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
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If we use the injury penalty, it should certainly be scaled to FP, though I will advocate classic rounding for this. Quote:
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It looks like Doug was indeed referring to injury (as in damage), not the partial injury rules. Quote:
Which two rolls? Quote:
I feel like the mental barrier is at least as important as the physical barrier. Quote:
And climbing too! Quote:
Yes, both methods present illogical situations. Quote:
Taking longer to set up the deception, and thus using less energy? I can see that. Ok, so I think we're applying an injury/HP penalty to PIF rolls, and they happen the turn AFTER you spend FP. Where does that leave green, AP wise?
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12-07-2018, 02:45 PM | #44 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
which 2: Persistance is Futile (will) and Hitting the Wall (HT) is 17 and 19 caps. Which might have to do with the first getting +3 and the second getting +5 so since the bonus is 2 higher the cap is 2 higher, I guess? In which case the cap is, ignoring those bonuses, equal to having a modified 14 or higher.
I think I had 8/12 HP (4 to leg) 5/12 AP and 10/12 FP. You are uninjured, 10/10 FP, can' remember your AP... |
12-10-2018, 07:35 AM | #45 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
I had 3/10 AP, and a +2 evaluate bonus.
The evaluate AP recovery roll failed, so I still have 3 AP. Are you still in the presented side stance from gladiators?
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12-11-2018, 07:21 AM | #46 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
I think so, I can't find having exited the Deny Left option so it'd be too late to do that now. The fear of the left leg getting totally crippled probably exceeds understanding of the threat to the right limbs.
Understanding these low-line parry rules and stacking with boxing and boxing not giving leg parries really makes me appreciate the importance of dodging for boxers. It really does become the uber-defense in GURPS. (an interesting pair for this wold be some inverse of Revered Grip where instead of +1 damage -2 to hit you got -1 to damage +2 to hit, representing a "jab", but maybe that's what people do by default?) |
12-12-2018, 08:19 AM | #47 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
Red throws out another kick against his foe trained in boxing:
16 (skill) -2 (kick) -2(right leg) +2 (presented leg) -2 (deceptive) +2 (evaluate)=14 vs 14 That's a hit. Barely! Red is down to 2 AP. Green may parry at -4 or dodge at -2. That's a 7 for dodge, I think, or a 6 for parry.
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12-12-2018, 11:25 AM | #48 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
Your taking a -2 to skill for deceptive creates a -1 to all defenses so I think it would only be -1 to dodge.
Boxing is -2 to parry kicks, -2 to parry lowline attacks, so a total of -5. My base of Dodge 9 / Parry 10 would be reduced to 8 and 5 based on the above. 9 and 6 with One Foe, 9 and 7 with "Deny Left" parry bonus to right arm. I could get my parry up to 8 if I wanted to use Cross Parry... but it's still inferior. Clearly dodging is the way to go for best chances... and in recognition of how "parrying sucks" as a boxer's response to lowline kicks, against someone who can kick capably and shows willingless to aim low, there isn't much of a benefit to taking a stance to get a parrying bonus. Giving you a +2 to hit one of my legs allows you to take a -2 deceptive and negate that bonus anyway... plus penalize the superior alternative of dodging! In recognition of that, and learning from this, I am going to exit out of "Deny Left" and take a neutral stance once more after this is resolved.
In reviewing the notes and the dice log it appears that you might have thought my 2nd DWA also had both halves miss, but actually it was only the 2nd half (the left random punch) which did... Could you choose an active defense against the 1st half (right handed punch to your left arm) to see what happens? This would reduce you from 3/10 AP to 2/10 AP unless you wanted to use Feverish defense in which case you'd go down to 0. It's up to you whether or not you want to keep your choice and roll to kick depending on what happens. Given that you just tied it, even a single -1 could result in a miss but I expect if you had suffered shock you might have made a different choice (like not taking the -2 for deceptive) to improve your odds. If you end up wanting to use Feverish and reducing to 0 this would mean needing to burn an FP to get the AP needed to kick. Since you didn't use your step, you could also retreat for free, to get +3 to dodge or +1 to parry. Since we are in Close range, moving 1 yard away would still have you in range to make a kick attack at my leg if that's still what you wanted to do. BTW this is kind of late to introduce this option but if you'd like we could use http://www.gamesdiner.com/rules-nugget-gurps-duck This would give you +1 if you wanted to use dodge to move your arm out of the way (mobile extremity). This isn't an automatic bonus for the leg, but I think the "Jump!" option would be fair (you get the +1 if you make a Jumping roll). Unlike below, There's also the option of Acrobatic Dodge. Since it involves a skill check and is a more flamboyant movement. Do you think that should cost extra AP? The potential of suffering a penalty seems cost enough. It's not really a 'separate' thing so much as a modification in how you do an existing thing, like with Duck/Jump in the above GamesDiner article (which I think also appeared in Pyramid 3-34) If you wish to parry an attack on your hand or arm using that hand or arm to parry, you also have the option of specifying it is a "no contact parry". This would mostly be for purposes like "I don't want to touch the flame elemental" but where it is important in normal combat is that no-contact means an advantage to you: I can't use your defense to set up a Beat (ST based Feint). The disadvantage to you: you can't use it to set up a Beat either (no big loss when your DX is higher than your ST, in this case) and can't use it to set up a Judo Throw or Arm Lock on a following turn (also no loss in this case). I also think it's reasonable to say that a "no contact parry" cannot benefit from a +1 for Cross Parry or the +1 if you were using "Deny (Side)" from Gladiators. To balance that out, do you think it would make sense to allow NCPs to benefit from the dodge bonuses that extremities enjoy, since that's basically what it is, dodging your limb using the Parry stat? I think that would be fair, so I'd allow you a +1 to "no contact parry" your arm out of the way of the punch if you would prefer that. I think it would also make sense to allow a +3 on no-contact parries even for combat skills (like brawling) which only normally get a +1 on retreating parries. But retreats would give the usual +1 if using a contact-based parry (such as required to set up Judo Throws, Beats, Arm Locks, or use Grabbing Parry or Aggressive Parry). If we were using weapons, I believe the usual penalty for parrying weapons unarmed should not apply if using no-contact parries. The penalty is justified as "it's hard to reach past the damaging portion of weapons" but you don't need to do that on no-contact parries which function a lot like dodges using the parrying skill. Another proposed modification: I think that falling down on a critically failed dodge (as normal) makes sense if dodging your head/neck/torso/leg or if using a retreat to dodge against an attack on your arm, but in the case of non-retreating dodges against attacks on the arm, that's a lot like a no-contact parry and I think using the critically failed attack table (as crit failed parries do) would make more sense, since it's an out of control flailing limb. Thoughts? How do you spend your 3/10 AP 10/10 FP to respond to the right-hand punch at your left arm? I think I have 5/12 AP 10/12 FP. I was previously at 1/10, burned my 2nd FP to go 1>7, spent 2 on my 2nd DWA, one of which was on target and needs an active defense if you don't want it to hurt your arm. Last edited by Plane; 12-12-2018 at 11:58 AM. |
12-13-2018, 07:24 AM | #49 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
Dodging shoulder attack: 9 (dodge) +3 (retreat) +2 (telegraphed) = 14 vs 10.
I'm at 1 AP. darn. Lets hope that kick connects.
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12-13-2018, 12:35 PM | #50 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: A Challenger Appears! Green versus Red
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Your dodge takes you from 3>2 AP, your kick takes you from 2>1 AP. Since you retreated, you are 1 yard away, which is still enough reach to kick from. Since I did not use my Free Step in my DWA, I am also able to Retreat for no added cost. I make a dodge (5/12 AP > 4/12 AP) while also retreating backward (so afterward we are 2 hexes apart). This is 9, +1 for One Foe, -1 for Deceptive Attack, + 3 for retreat for a total of 12. I'm still very worried about a death spiral so I'll opt to spend another 2 AP (4/12 to 2/12 AP) so that I can roll against a 14 instead. I roll a 12... guess I wasted my AP, I could have just skirted by with a tie if I hadn't used Feverish! Oh well...
for my turn: Do Nothing. We're 2 yards apart so I'm thinking I might try and regain some AP until you close the range.
I have 2/12 AP 10/12 FP 8/12HP you have 1/12 AP 10/10 FP 10/10HP Last edited by Plane; 12-13-2018 at 02:39 PM. |
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