What point value would you give to an advantage which lets you create manastones?

[maximara]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Wild advantages are inherently not associated with a power source (I'm not even certain what it would mean for it to have one but not be part of a power thematically speaking).

Wildcard Magery comes to mind as a wild advantage inherently associated with a power source (Magical)

Power Investiture is another (Divine)

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

The origin doesn't matter to mechanics and that's good.

Wildcard Magery is again an oddball in this as unlike other powers it uses the Ritual Magic mechanics rather than the traditional power mechanics.

Power Investiture similarly doesn't follow the traditional power mechanics

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by maximara

Wildcard Magery is again an oddball in this as unlike other powers it uses the Ritual Magic mechanics rather than the traditional power mechanics.

Power Investiture similarly doesn't follow the traditional power mechanics

There are always exceptions ;) I think certain advantages have a built in power source. I remember someone or somewhere breaking down Power Investiture and how it 'gets' a pact limitation. And skills in particular don't take power modifiers since the skill itself is mundane but what you do with the skill is supernatural (which is especially relevant to something like Magic! which has mostly supernatural skills but a handful of mundane skills)

[maximara]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

There are always exceptions ;) I think certain advantages have a built in power source. I remember someone or somewhere breaking down Power Investiture and how it 'gets' a pact limitation. And skills in particular don't take power modifiers since the skill itself is mundane but what you do with the skill is supernatural (which is especially relevant to something like Magic! which has mostly supernatural skills but a handful of mundane skills)

Power Investiture's breakdown appears in GURPS Thaumatology pg 67

The full breakdown is

Power Investiture: Magery (Functions as a Different Talent ±0%; Sanctity Replaces Mana: ±0%; No Zero-Level Requirement +10%; Inspired Learning +20%; No Spell Prerequisites +30%; Pact -10%; No Magic Item Sensitivity -20%; Limited spell list -30%)

I should mention that Wildcard Magery is an oddball even by wildcard standards as it is the only time where Magery actually adds to wildcard spells.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by maximara

Power Investiture's breakdown appears in GURPS Thaumatology pg 67

The full breakdown is

Power Investiture: Magery (Functions as a Different Talent ±0%; Sanctity Replaces Mana: ±0%; No Zero-Level Requirement +10%; Inspired Learning +20%; No Spell Prerequisites +30%; Pact -10%; No Magic Item Sensitivity -20%; Limited spell list -30%)

Thanks! Interesting, it never occurred to me (but I knew each individually) that it has to worry about both mana (sanctity) and pact.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Thanks! Interesting, it never occurred to me (but I knew each individually) that it has to worry about both mana (sanctity) and pact.

Another implied variant appears in GURPS Powers pg 181.

It basically is Magery (Functions as a Different Talent ±0%; Psionics Replaces Mana: ±0%) with the following possible adjustments:

* stopped or negated by anti-psi powers: -5%
* brief incantations, make small “casting” gestures, and have “spell components” to hand required: -10%

[Plane]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Powers p179 "Source and origin are not the same thing".

I know, I'm just saying the way Origin is written about in P179 seems to differ from the way it was written about in Basic, which seemed to imply source-like functionality.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

And your second line was my point, the wings' origin was magic but that doesn't mean they function the same way "spells" do (advantages with magic as a source). They are related to magic and there might even be leftover magic on the person that can be detected (maybe a silly quirk "Flags as a wizard").

If they're related to magic this could mean that Neutralize/Static could work against them (GM decision) even without being a power (being 'wild' advantages without any modifiers whatsoever) based on how we read the box

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Plane

I know, I'm just saying the way Origin is written about in P179 seems to differ from the way it was written about in Basic, which seemed to imply source-like functionality.

Oh I read it the other way around that sources didn't seem to yet exist in Basic. P34 even differentiates 'mana sensitive' traits.

Originally Posted by Plane

If they're related to magic this could mean that Neutralize/Static could work against them (GM decision) even without being a power (being 'wild' advantages without any modifiers whatsoever) based on how we read the box

That definitely sounds like an antagonistic GM to look for ways to punish the player with a limitation they don't have.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

sounds like an antagonistic GM to look for ways to punish the player with a limitation they don't have.

Like treating Mana-Sensitive attacks also also having Environmental:Mana so targets in No Mana zones can't be hit?

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Plane

Like treating Mana-Sensitive attacks also also having Environmental:Mana so targets in No Mana zones can't be hit?

Wow, that is a great point. I'm going to have players put Environmental on spell powers that can't work on targets in NMZ. That can help differentiate Missile spells that create an object that can pass into NMZ but can't be created in it. (Because Mana is so common I don't imagine it being any more than -5%).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Wow, that is a great point. I'm going to have players put Environmental on spell powers that can't work on targets in NMZ. That can help differentiate Missile spells that create an object that can pass into NMZ but can't be created in it. (Because Mana is so common I don't imagine it being any more than -5%).

M152/M160 calls Mana "common" for zombies/liches/wraiths so possibly -10% since -5% is for Very Common.

I guess a 3rd issue is the "intervening spaces" thing, like if the mage is casting from within Normal Mana to a target who is also in Normal Mana but then there is a No Mana Zone between them which the attack needs to cross. Whether or not you need a mana conduit.