Vow: Never Bathe & Bad Smell

[gruundehn]

Even in a pseudo-medieval society smelling too bad would cause problems. Next town or inn the party gets to, the locals ban the offender and refuse him any service. No food or drink, except what he has, no bed except for camping out - alone and unprotected - in a field somewhere, etc. Even his party would get a bad reaction due to their association with him.
Games should be fun but going overboard like this is perhaps too much. Perhaps it is time to find a way to finish the Vow off?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I find the suggestion, that not bathing = you stink, offensive.
I'm allergic to soap and water:D
I only stink of sweat after a long hard day at work in temperatures over 18c and it's actually my clothing that stinks - I smell fine.
Weirdly, I don't necessarily stink to members of the opposite sex - apparently, some find the odour attractive:\ The human brain is Too weird.
...

I'm offended by stinky people that don't know they stink. I'm sorry that my sense of smell offends you. But it's my nose. Strong odors aren't always stinks, that true. But human odors of any kind from strangers sure as heck stink to me.
I make no value judgement on those that stink, but my nose doesn't care about the reasons.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by gruundehn

Even in a pseudo-medieval society smelling too bad would cause problems. Next town or inn the party gets to, the locals ban the offender and refuse him any service. No food or drink, except what he has, no bed except for camping out - alone and unprotected - in a field somewhere, etc. Even his party would get a bad reaction due to their association with him.
Games should be fun but going overboard like this is perhaps too much. Perhaps it is time to find a way to finish the Vow off?

I imagine it would depend on what they stink of. General body odor was probably ubiquitous. Disease, rot, and illness might be less tolerated. Atypical diets also can cause unusual scents. And for humans, unusual smells usually cause fear or disgust on an instinctive level.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I imagine it would depend on what they stink of. General body odor was probably ubiquitous. Disease, rot, and illness might be less tolerated. Atypical diets also can cause unusual scents. And for humans, unusual smells usually cause fear or disgust on an instinctive level.

Even ignoring that this character stinks of years of rotting caked feces, meat scraps, blood, and vomit, in addition to years of accumulated body odour, heavy drinkers generally have a worse body odour than moderate, light, and non drinkers. Not to mention that it's possible the smell of the alcohol off of him, his staggering mode of walking, and his heavily slurred loud speech (all while carrying an oversized executioner's axe) probably often times "covered up" the other smells and were more alarming than the smells were. And his reputation for sudden, barely provoked acts of blinding, murderous violence, and for being involved in organized crime didn't help much either.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I only stink of sweat after a long hard day at work in temperatures over 18c and it's actually my clothing that stinks - I smell fine.

Weirdly, I don't necessarily stink to members of the opposite sex - apparently, some find the odour attractive:\ The human brain is Too weird.

Human body odour varies wildly amongst individuals. Some people smell rank after only a day or so of not bathing. Others have a noticeable body odour, but it isn't bad. It's just that for many people there's an ick factor from smelling anything (other than artificial things like mouthwash or perfume) from another human, good or bad. Garlic is a good example: it doesn't magically smell bad when it's on someone's breath. It's that it is from someone's breath that makes it undesirable. Garlic is just singled out because it has such a naturally strong (yet, for many people, pleasant) odour.

Even in a single individual, many variables affect body odour. Diet is probably one of the biggest factors. Another is the level of negative stress. If there are any health conditions, they can factor in as well. A healthy individual with little to no stress (or in healthy control of stress levels) eating a good diet will almost always have an okay body odour. It'll still stink and be offensive to people who don't like the smell of other humans. But it could even be attractive, as you say, to others that are attracted to your sex. Part of how we determine sexual attractiveness, on an evolutionary level, is health and vigour, after all. I think it's fair to say that if you or someone close to you notices a change in your natural scent (towards the bad), it might be an early warning sign of disease, poorer dietary choices, and / or unmanaged stress.

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I remember reading something about tests having shown that clothing worn, unwashed, for a year is no dirtier than clothing worn for over 3 days (providing you don't fall into anything:D). I think by dirt they meant bacteria and bad smells generally come from bacteria... Unless you count tobacco but then smokers can't smell that.

Now, if you're talking about someone who refuses/vows never to change/ wash their clothes, I'd accept that their clothes would not smell clean. But providing they don't pee or poop therein, it really isn't that bad.

For those who do find relief where they live, a 10ft pole is useful. They'll also encounter many helpful people who'll do their shopping for them - anything to keep them out of the shop:D

The character in question, Bill, actually does clean his clothes and his boots, and he keeps his armour relatively neat and tidy. It's his body he won't clean in any way. He doesn't wear pants, underwear, or any armour from the waste down, so there's nothing for him to pee and poop in, clothes-wise. That said, part of his Vow involves not using toilet paper or cleaning himself down there at all, and so that 10 ft pole you mentioned comes back into play. Also, when he gets really stinking drunk, he pees and poops where he stands (or sits, or lies), and that gets messy. He passes out from alcohol abuse so much that it's not an uncommon occurrence for him to end up in his own urine, feces, and / or vomit. And then it dries and cakes onto his flesh and into his body hair (he's a hairy fellow), and he won't wash it.

He and the party often found help of the kind you suggested, for the reason you suggested. If he spends too much time in one area (especially indoors with poor ventilation, it'll be unbearable for quite some time. I think more people would have reacted less civilly, just telling him or the party to get out and stay out, but the entire party looked like scary dudes, and Bill always carried around an oversized great axe stained with blood, with a manic murderous glint in his eye, so politeness usually ruled the day with local shopkeepers.

Originally Posted by gruundehn

Even in a pseudo-medieval society smelling too bad would cause problems. Next town or inn the party gets to, the locals ban the offender and refuse him any service. No food or drink, except what he has, no bed except for camping out - alone and unprotected - in a field somewhere, etc. Even his party would get a bad reaction due to their association with him.

Games should be fun but going overboard like this is perhaps too much.

Quite right, and it did. When shopkeepers, innkeepers, and the like weren't scared and trying to politely move them along fast, they did, indeed, refuse him service. He was quite wealthy though, so he often could overcome such hurdles with the right price, and he had loyal goons and enforcers and a reputation for making people who offended him disappear (in addition to his frightening demeanor and strength, he also was something of a higher level mobster). As for the rest of the party... yeah, they got very bad reactions due to their association with him. It wasn't even really the smell as much as the stories of how he would behave when he got angry and / or had too much to drink. He did bad things.

Originally Posted by gruundehn

Perhaps it is time to find a way to finish the Vow off?

Interestingly, after he's converted to GURPS, that's one of the player's goals for the character. He wants to either buy off the Vow (effectively, Be Gross) and the Odious Personal Habit (Won't wear anything that covers the pelvic region), or get me to consider trading them for other disadvantages. Bill's motivation? Since he lost his two sons years ago in two separate and unrelated tragic accidents, when he met one of the other PCs, Shadow, who already had a daughter and ended up having several more children, he fixated on being Shadow's kids' godfather and having a role in their lives. Shadow's latest "baby mama" doesn't want Bill around her or their two newborn baby girls, and because she doesn't think he'll clean himself up and start wearing pants because he's always lied and said it was a very deep and important cultural thing for him (rather than a personal promise he made to himself), she made it an ultimatum. The player reasoned that Bill had come to care more about having role in Shadow's kids' lives and being their godfather than in his Vow or clothing preferences, so he'll shock everyone and just do it. There are also motivations related to his role in his criminal organization, but they're less important.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Even ignoring that this character stinks of years of rotting caked feces, meat scraps, blood, and vomit, in addition to years of accumulated body odour, heavy drinkers generally have a worse body odour than moderate, light, and non drinkers. Not to mention that it's possible the smell of the alcohol off of him, his staggering mode of walking, and his heavily slurred loud speech (all while carrying an oversized executioner's axe) probably often times "covered up" the other smells and were more alarming than the smells were. And his reputation for sudden, barely provoked acts of blinding, murderous violence, and for being involved in organized crime didn't help much either.

Seems like this guy would be crawling with vermin and parasites, would attract and spread them to any dwelling he stayed in for a prolonged period and any breaks in his skin would stand a good chance of becoming infected. He's probably have a quite a few rashes and frequent fungal infections and other types near/in allot his orifices unless he's very hearty. I can't imagine he's not itching and fairly uncomfortable most of them time particularly if he doesn't clean himself after moving his bowels.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

The character in question, Bill, actually does clean his clothes and his boots, and he keeps his armour relatively neat and tidy. It's his body he won't clean in any way. He doesn't wear pants, underwear, or any armour from the waste down, so there's nothing for him to pee and poop in, clothes-wise. That said, part of his Vow involves not using toilet paper or cleaning himself down there at all, and so that 10 ft pole you mentioned comes back into play. Also, when he gets really stinking drunk, he pees and poops where he stands (or sits, or lies), and that gets messy. He passes out from alcohol abuse so much that it's not an uncommon occurrence for him to end up in his own urine, feces, and / or vomit. And then it dries and cakes onto his flesh and into his body hair (he's a hairy fellow), and he won't wash it.

He and the party often found help of the kind you suggested, for the reason you suggested. If he spends too much time in one area (especially indoors with poor ventilation, it'll be unbearable for quite some time. I think more people would have reacted less civilly, just telling him or the party to get out and stay out, but the entire party looked like scary dudes, and Bill always carried around an oversized great axe stained with blood, with a manic murderous glint in his eye, so politeness usually ruled the day with local shopkeepers.
.

Serious question: why did the other PCs join up with such foul (and arguably insane) guy? Seems like in most culture this man is unbelievably foul and even slightly unhealthy to hang around.

Edit: Does he wear kilts and hipcloths or does he got naked from the waist down?

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Maybe I've been playing too many soldiers recently, but I can see many parties cleaning this guy by force occasionally.

Soldiers, heck, this happened to me in real life. I was living in a communal house, six men and six women; circumstances were such that we couldn't move out or kick out the offensive individual (though that did come later). He went weeks without bathing. Eventually after a month the men picked him up bodily and threw him into a bathtub with the shower on. On the upside, we only had to do it once. He had other obnoxious habits, however, which allowed us to be rid of him eventually.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

I gotta know: did that little gem of a detail come from your GM or from you? I'm impressed either way, I'm just curious to know who put forth that vivid description.

My fault. I was the one usually supplying the "charming" little reminders about how he'd earned that Charisma 4 (D&D 3e). I was particularly excessive because I personally was about ready to fall asleep on my keyboard; inflicting a description of my character passed out in the stew on the other players as punishment for keeping me up late seemed appropriate at the time.

Normally it was a little less graphic - many a joke was made about the "Minotaur funk". I even successfully argued that it repelled mosquitoes.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by Bruno

My fault. I was the one usually supplying the "charming" little reminders about how he'd earned that Charisma 4 (D&D 3e). I was particularly excessive because I personally was about ready to fall asleep on my keyboard; inflicting a description of my character passed out in the stew on the other players as punishment for keeping me up late seemed appropriate at the time.
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I approve.