07-17-2015, 07:01 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
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07-17-2015, 07:03 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
I've seen bows used in two cases
1. All in Heroic Archer, Strongbow, Weapon Master, Tons of Striking ST Bow (or lifting ST), DWA types who are all bow, all the time, and decidedly lethal at it 2. Brawny and dextrous fighter or thief sorts who drop a point or two in it because, eh, why not? Bows are light and cheap, and if you've got a good DX maybe it will be good Type 1 archers can bring the pain up there with meleeists, Type 2 archers do it just to add another trick to their toolbox |
07-17-2015, 07:06 AM | #13 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
Another tactic I've seen used where you only have one bowman is the fire-and-forget uber-heavy crossbow.
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07-17-2015, 07:10 AM | #14 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
I once did a combat senario where a single unarmored PC archer tried to do a hit and run assassination attempt against a target gaurded by 4 soldiers in the woods.
The PC had move 6, bow -14, and I don't remember what fast draw was. The soldiers had move 4, armor, sword-12, and crossbow -12 (or 11, it was a while ago). The PC left two soldiers down, the mark gravely wounded, and got away with maybe a 2-point injury. Bows are awesome if you use them right.
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07-17-2015, 07:14 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
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A skill 14 archer with aim for 1 second gives effective skill of 17, thus hitting well out to 10-15 yards and if the swordsman is starting at further out by aiming beforehand can do a shot first at 20+ yards. Remember that in GURPS combat at low points a single 1d+1 impaling attack hit is really really bad unless you have a heavy armor. If you are in heavy armor then you likely move slower in low point games, and then the archer can just run away a bit and shoot and repeat. And while heavy armor forces the archer to use Bodkin Points reducing the damage multiple to 1x and thus forcing really 2-4 hits instead of 1-2, the archer gets those things for free while the swordsman is running around.. It is in higher point games that the archer gets in trouble unless you allow predictive shot and/or multiple rapid strikes with weapon master/heroic archer. As at those games the archer speed advantage is less as the swordsman can carry heavier armor before being encumbered and parry missile weapon skill or just plain high dodge makes the attacks ineffective. |
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07-17-2015, 07:29 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
I should note that your swordsman is sprinting at 40 miles an hour. Why are you throwing an amateur archer up against a superhuman speedster?
That said, using a bow requires high skill, some patience, and range. The big advantages are that an arrow cannot be Parried (without cinematic abilities), which is typically the foe's best defense, and that you can actually reach out and touch your foe without getting close enough for them to strike back. Let's start our opponents only 50 yards apart (a more likely engagement range) and make our swordsman be sprinting at only Move 6 (appropriate for a character with Move 5 and No Encumbrance). The first round, our archer is at -8 to hit (you typically don't count human-scale movement for Speed penalties, and personally I think only lateral movement should really matter there anyway), so he'd need Bow 17 and go All Out for a 50% shot (Bow 21 for the general "safe" 91%). Instead of shooting, he Aims, for +3 to hit. Next round, he's still at -8 for Range, but now Skill 14 would be enough for a 50% shot (Skill 18 for 91%). Let's assume he continues Aiming - next round he's at -8+4 (13/17), then -8+5 (12/16). He won't get further bonuses for Aiming, but he can wait for his target to get a little closer, getting +1 for Range on each of round 5 (26 yards out), round 7 (14 yards out), and round 8 (8 yards out), then completely negates the penalty on round 9 (2 yards out). Probably his best bet is to take a shot (with an All Out Attack) on round 4 (at net -2 to skill), reload on rounds 5 and 6, Aim on round 7, then make an All Out Attack on round 8 (at net -1 to skill), and finally draw a melee weapon on round 9. If he doesn't have very good melee skill, or if his foe looks more likely to Slam than attack on round 10 (in which case Parry probably isn't an option), he may be better served holding his second attack until his foe is 2 yards away and using a normal Attack, which will be at a net +4 to skill. Of course, a single foe charging a single archer isn't the usual place you'll see a bow in use. A good archer will position himself where he's difficult for the melee foes to reach (high ground - which also functionally reduces range to targets - or behind a wall of rubble or defenders), allowing him to rain death with relative impunity. Archers are also useful when the enemy has a ranged unit in a similar situation - it's a lot harder for a swordsman to take out the archers standing on top of the city walls than it is for the archer. Bows are also useful for sneak attacks, as you don't need to get nearly as close before making your attack (and you've got better exit options if things go poorly). In cinematic settings, Heroic Archer can also be of use, as it allows you to, amongst other things, skip Aiming for the bonus, rapid fire your bow (with Heroic Archer and good skill in Fast Draw and Bow, you can attack every round - twice a round if you string two arrows at once for a Dual Weapon Attack). |
07-17-2015, 07:31 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
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And, yes, if you want a cinematic archer, you need cinematic point totals. Historically, some guy with a bow was not generally a match for some guy with a sword unless some guy with a bow had either 200 friends, including a line of spearmen in front of him, or he was on walls or behind palisades.
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07-17-2015, 07:36 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Kernersville, NC
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
So first Lesson Learned for me is not to try complicated mathy-posts at 6am...
As I was driving in to work, I realized several factors I missed that I likely wouldn't have at the game table, including the damage multiplier for imp. Also, I was wondering why his Move was so fast... I read and re-read B354 more than once and it seemed pretty clear that Move multiplied... when I went back and re-read it, I realized that I ran into two familiar annoyances with GURPS: there's a box in the middle of the page I should've read past, instead of moving to the top of the next column and, for some reason, they're repeating information on an Advantage (Enhanced Move) in the general rules on Sprinting. Anyways... A couple of things you guys pointed out that I definitely missed:
Very much appreciated, folks. When I've time, I may try to re-work the scenario a bit (and include slightly higher skill levels so that my two combatants are indeed at that 'competent' level). Admittedly, I'm not really looking for examples in the 20+ range, I'm more thinking about fights between 'normal' folks. Thanks, all! |
07-17-2015, 07:38 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
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My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars. |
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07-17-2015, 07:49 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?
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