Help needed in designing a Starbase

Zorian · 06-30-2010, 04:59 AM

Basically I want to work out a rough layout because the idea for the place is HUGE. It is in a Ceres ish sized hunk of rock with stuff added on. Human culture is relatively stable for a LONG time ( Think Dune but longer) and the base has been in existent for at least 5000 years. It has been a trade center (for human colonies that had been out of contact with the main human cultures) a,research station, a military base, and now it is the base of operations for the program of exploration in it's section of the galaxy (main focus locating human planets). It also has some embassies for one major and several minor races.

I want it to have a "brown sector" a la Babylon 5 also.

Does anyone have something already worked out? Or can direct me to a site that can help.

Ronnke · 06-30-2010, 05:14 AM

You could build it using GURPS Spaceships and then possibly stat it out with GURPS City Stats.

DAT · 06-30-2010, 05:24 AM

Are you looking for a map? For a list of locations to include? Or something else?

How much superscience are you looking at? Anti-gravity versus spin gravity? Reactionless Thruster versus rockets?

I don't have my copy handy, but something like GURPS Traveller: Starports will give you some good ideas for what to include.

Didn't one of the PDFs in the GURPS Spaceship series (#6?) have space stations.

Transhuman Space Deep Beyond I believe has a description for its Ceres station (don't remember the level of detail off the top of my head).

-Dan

robkelk · 06-30-2010, 02:40 PM

Other folks have addressed the game mechanics. I'll address the background.

From the description you've given, basically, you want to design a large city. It has its light industry (the research area), its commercial district (the trade center), its government enclave (the military base), its "bad side of town" (the "brown sector"), and no doubt it also has its city hall (command centre) and suburbs (residential districts). The only difference is that you have three dimensions to play with, instead of just two - urban sprawl can extend upwards and downwards as well as in all the compass directions.

So... What do you want this city to be? Is this a good place to live, overall, or is it someplace that people would rather avoid? Who lives there? (Certainly, the privliged classes, the middle class, the working classes, and the outcasts all live there - they live in all cities - but how many of each group live there? A base with a "white collar" middle-class majority is going to have a different feel than a base with a "blue collar" lower-class majority, for example.) What do people do for a living? How bad is the crime rate, who keeps the criminals in check, and how? What's the medical care like?

Once you've figured out what this place feels like, then you can get to the specifics... and you'll already have a good idea of what those specifics are.

Zorian · 06-30-2010, 03:27 PM

Yes it is basically a city with a military base and research facilities nearby. It is not intended to be such but after being continuously occupied for so long it kind of developed a native population that have been there for generations and are sort of like Bab 5 Brown sector, barely surviving. Big gap between those stationed there and the natives (financially, socially etc). So unless you are assigned there (and will only be there for a decade or two living in the nice areas) you don't want to be there.

I don't really want a really detailed map ,just a ...well a zoning map for a city. Just in 3D as was pointed out. Can any of those recommended PDFs help with that?

On the tech: TL10 verging into TL 11 in places and definitely Super Science.
Artificial gravity, force shields, etc. There are no Nanite swarms, mind copying ect because of a series of big issues with AIs in the Transhuman stage that mainly involved human copies. So NO AI has access (hardware) to say internal weapons or the outside doors. They know it is inefficient but well when most of the deep space stuff in Sol system died because the AI decided they didn't like the humans on board...you get the idea.

cosmicfish · 06-30-2010, 04:01 PM

High-value military and government systems will be located in the core for maximum protection, accommodations and recreational facilities will be at or near the surface so that they can have windows. So will defenses, for obvious reasons, interspersed for coverage. The area surrounding the core will have a mix of grunge and luxury - the bigwigs will want their accommodations and restaurants nearby, but there will also be flophouses and greasy spoons for dockworkers and people passing through. After that will be the real high-end sectors, central enough for convenience but far enough away so that the rough types won't be hanging around. After that is burbs and light industry. If the asteroid is not completely utilized, there will be a buffer zone of rock between the burbs and the surface (to maintain the structural integrity and provide protection) - and criminal elements will most likely dig in there. Slums will be whereever no one else wants to go.

For issues like that I would address some quirks of the technologies involved - is the artificial gravity uniform over that large an area? If not, then that "Brown Sector" will likely be high-gravity, while low-gravity is reserved for high-end accommodations and certain industries. Does gravity point the same way throughout the structure? Then higher is still better, lower is still worse. Are there any dangerous or unpleasant systems (like waste dumps, radioactivity, etc.), because there will be slums there.

To do more, you need to make a list of what will be there, and how you want to lay it out.

8th Orbital Army · 06-30-2010, 07:22 PM

Think of the city of Rome. Think of everything it's been. starting as a small settlement on the Tiber, to the center of a growing Republic to the capitol of a continent spanning empire, to a burnt out ruin, to a center for transnational theocracy, to small regional power, to a modern city in an advanced first world nation.

Then think about the fact that your space station has been around for twice as long as the city of Rome.

Of course there's going to be a native population. There's going to be immigrant populations, that have been around for thousands of years, and are still looked down on as "new-comers". There's going to be whole religions that have emerged in this one space station, grown, collapsed, broken off into hundreds of off-shoots, and then been re-vitalized by immigrants showing up with there own version of the original religion, cooked up on whatever crazy planet they fled from. Every corridor you walk down has a history, every airlock means something to some one.

Things aren't going to be run on the basis of "this makes sense" (i.e. gov and mil systems at the core for maximum defense), but on the basis of "This is how it is." (military bases grouped at the axis of spin because the Church of the Reformed Liturgy believes it is a sin to keep fissionable materials in a gravity well, and the Great Reformer from the 42th century (G.H.A.) insisted that Centrifugal Force = Gravity)

I love this ****. Please post more as you develop the setting.

Zorian · 07-01-2010, 05:10 AM

Well one thing about the core human cultures in my game is that they consider religious fervor a sign of mental instability. Of the course the fact that they are very Humanist and take that to a level past cultures usually leave for their religions... :)

The PCs are currently out on a survey tour and are about half way done so I figured I needed to get off my b-hine and finish up the next stage of the campaign. They will be called upon to investigate a murder when they get back. Since they do have a character skilled in investigations ,are the same field ,don't personally know anyone involved and were thousands of light years away when the killings happened.

Basically another crew ran into a alien life form (mostly energy psi) that can take over human hosts, usually this leaves a fairly animalistic creature but it can be controlled by others who were luckier with host. Pykers/Psi draw upon extra dimensional energy (how they can violate thermodynamics <grin>) and if one of these buggers gets one for a host ,boom they get all the skills/powers/knowledge ect of the host ...with a desire to breed more...
The other team found a planet of humans who were being ruled by this race (humans mainly being kept around to breed more Pykers for cool hosts and well food-mental energy basically) and didn't realize it since the aliens pretend very well. The Pyker (first contact specialist, TP, Face) on their crew was taken over ,the crew thought she died and following protocol ended the survey tour.

On the way back it awoke HUNGRY and feed on the first mind it saw, then to cover up the feeding damaged the body in a way that one of the crew could do. Then it wemt in a hibernate state. The last two crew each assumed the other did it. When they returned both were arrested. The alien woke up in the morgue and dominated (TP remember <grin>) the lab tech who arranged for the body to be cremated (by firing it into the sun) as per a "long standing request". It ,of course, was a glitch to carried out the request before the investigation ended.
It is now in the brown sector building up a cult ,offering power and eventual immortality. With the long term goal of taking over the station and then spreading throughout human space...

jacobmuller · 07-01-2010, 06:58 AM

The GURPS Spaceships books can't handle the detail you need - they actually tell you Not to use them for space stations of more than SM+16 (10megatons) and Ceres is 9.5x10^11megatons or about 10million times bigger than the design system can handle. It would allow you come up with numbers for Hit Points and DR but I don't think they'd be all that useful.

GURPS City Stats would be more useful but, it's about numbers, not maps.

Zorian · 07-10-2010, 03:32 AM

I bought the Starship book. I like it. Not helpful in building the station as stated but it was REALLY useful in fleshing out the PCs ship.

On the station:
1st it was a research station for research vein that it would be better if they were no where near a habitable planet or far in a star's gravity well. So a starport/research facility with attending housing etc at one of the poles. This area is currently being used by the organization the PCs work for.

2nd A military base with shipyards was added on the other pole after the locals Federation of Human planets started running into REALLY hostile aliens who could travel between the stars. The research facility was converted to primarily Xenos studies at this time. Some tunnels connecting the facilities were added during this time and a mining operation was started with eventually honeycombed the dwarf though care was made to leave lots of rock between them and the surface. Surface installations were added sensors, weapons ,small bases for emergency work etc.

3rd After the locals remade contact with the Earth League (PCs are from a descendant government) the facilities use as a military based waned and it became a trade center that specialized in dealing with non-humans. This is the period that most of the indigenous population got here. A third port was added on the equator and a series of warehouses, smaller shipyards and a housing for the workers started this is also the area that the Embassy Row (region where the non-humans live, also has some actual Embassies ,only one major race though).

4th Recently (relatively that is about 1000 years ago) The Federation of Humanity (current main human government) bought the place and based a small military squardren, a Xenos research group and the Project Outreach (who the PCs work for). The trade area still functions but is no where as busy as it used to be.

Does this work? Any other ideas? I have pretty much given up on a nice map but if I have it fairly well worked out and written down I think I can work it.

06-30-2010, 04:59 AM	#1
Zorian Join Date: Feb 2006	Help needed in designing a Starbase Basically I want to work out a rough layout because the idea for the place is HUGE. It is in a Ceres ish sized hunk of rock with stuff added on. Human culture is relatively stable for a LONG time ( Think Dune but longer) and the base has been in existent for at least 5000 years. It has been a trade center (for human colonies that had been out of contact with the main human cultures) a,research station, a military base, and now it is the base of operations for the program of exploration in it's section of the galaxy (main focus locating human planets). It also has some embassies for one major and several minor races. I want it to have a "brown sector" a la Babylon 5 also. Does anyone have something already worked out? Or can direct me to a site that can help.

06-30-2010, 05:14 AM	#2
Ronnke Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Australia	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase You could build it using GURPS Spaceships and then possibly stat it out with GURPS City Stats.

06-30-2010, 05:24 AM	#3
DAT Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase Are you looking for a map? For a list of locations to include? Or something else? How much superscience are you looking at? Anti-gravity versus spin gravity? Reactionless Thruster versus rockets? I don't have my copy handy, but something like GURPS Traveller: Starports will give you some good ideas for what to include. Didn't one of the PDFs in the GURPS Spaceship series (#6?) have space stations. Transhuman Space Deep Beyond I believe has a description for its Ceres station (don't remember the level of detail off the top of my head). -Dan

06-30-2010, 02:40 PM	#4
robkelk Untitled Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: between keyboard and chair	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase Other folks have addressed the game mechanics. I'll address the background. From the description you've given, basically, you want to design a large city. It has its light industry (the research area), its commercial district (the trade center), its government enclave (the military base), its "bad side of town" (the "brown sector"), and no doubt it also has its city hall (command centre) and suburbs (residential districts). The only difference is that you have three dimensions to play with, instead of just two - urban sprawl can extend upwards and downwards as well as in all the compass directions. So... What do you want this city to be? Is this a good place to live, overall, or is it someplace that people would rather avoid? Who lives there? (Certainly, the privliged classes, the middle class, the working classes, and the outcasts all live there - they live in all cities - but how many of each group live there? A base with a "white collar" middle-class majority is going to have a different feel than a base with a "blue collar" lower-class majority, for example.) What do people do for a living? How bad is the crime rate, who keeps the criminals in check, and how? What's the medical care like? Once you've figured out what this place feels like, then you can get to the specifics... and you'll already have a good idea of what those specifics are. __________________ Rob Kelk “Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.” – Bernard Baruch, Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950 No longer reading these forums regularly.

06-30-2010, 03:27 PM	#5
Zorian Join Date: Feb 2006	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase Yes it is basically a city with a military base and research facilities nearby. It is not intended to be such but after being continuously occupied for so long it kind of developed a native population that have been there for generations and are sort of like Bab 5 Brown sector, barely surviving. Big gap between those stationed there and the natives (financially, socially etc). So unless you are assigned there (and will only be there for a decade or two living in the nice areas) you don't want to be there. I don't really want a really detailed map ,just a ...well a zoning map for a city. Just in 3D as was pointed out. Can any of those recommended PDFs help with that? On the tech: TL10 verging into TL 11 in places and definitely Super Science. Artificial gravity, force shields, etc. There are no Nanite swarms, mind copying ect because of a series of big issues with AIs in the Transhuman stage that mainly involved human copies. So NO AI has access (hardware) to say internal weapons or the outside doors. They know it is inefficient but well when most of the deep space stuff in Sol system died because the AI decided they didn't like the humans on board...you get the idea.

06-30-2010, 04:01 PM	#6
cosmicfish Join Date: Mar 2010	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase High-value military and government systems will be located in the core for maximum protection, accommodations and recreational facilities will be at or near the surface so that they can have windows. So will defenses, for obvious reasons, interspersed for coverage. The area surrounding the core will have a mix of grunge and luxury - the bigwigs will want their accommodations and restaurants nearby, but there will also be flophouses and greasy spoons for dockworkers and people passing through. After that will be the real high-end sectors, central enough for convenience but far enough away so that the rough types won't be hanging around. After that is burbs and light industry. If the asteroid is not completely utilized, there will be a buffer zone of rock between the burbs and the surface (to maintain the structural integrity and provide protection) - and criminal elements will most likely dig in there. Slums will be whereever no one else wants to go. For issues like that I would address some quirks of the technologies involved - is the artificial gravity uniform over that large an area? If not, then that "Brown Sector" will likely be high-gravity, while low-gravity is reserved for high-end accommodations and certain industries. Does gravity point the same way throughout the structure? Then higher is still better, lower is still worse. Are there any dangerous or unpleasant systems (like waste dumps, radioactivity, etc.), because there will be slums there. To do more, you need to make a list of what will be there, and how you want to lay it out.

06-30-2010, 07:22 PM	#7
8th Orbital Army Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Philadelphia	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase Think of the city of Rome. Think of everything it's been. starting as a small settlement on the Tiber, to the center of a growing Republic to the capitol of a continent spanning empire, to a burnt out ruin, to a center for transnational theocracy, to small regional power, to a modern city in an advanced first world nation. Then think about the fact that your space station has been around for twice as long as the city of Rome. Of course there's going to be a native population. There's going to be immigrant populations, that have been around for thousands of years, and are still looked down on as "new-comers". There's going to be whole religions that have emerged in this one space station, grown, collapsed, broken off into hundreds of off-shoots, and then been re-vitalized by immigrants showing up with there own version of the original religion, cooked up on whatever crazy planet they fled from. Every corridor you walk down has a history, every airlock means something to some one. Things aren't going to be run on the basis of "this makes sense" (i.e. gov and mil systems at the core for maximum defense), but on the basis of "This is how it is." (military bases grouped at the axis of spin because the Church of the Reformed Liturgy believes it is a sin to keep fissionable materials in a gravity well, and the Great Reformer from the 42th century (G.H.A.) insisted that Centrifugal Force = Gravity) I love this . Please post more as you develop the setting.

07-01-2010, 05:10 AM	#8
Zorian Join Date: Feb 2006	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase Well one thing about the core human cultures in my game is that they consider religious fervor a sign of mental instability. Of the course the fact that they are very Humanist and take that to a level past cultures usually leave for their religions... :) The PCs are currently out on a survey tour and are about half way done so I figured I needed to get off my b-hine and finish up the next stage of the campaign. They will be called upon to investigate a murder when they get back. Since they do have a character skilled in investigations ,are the same field ,don't personally know anyone involved and were thousands of light years away when the killings happened. Basically another crew ran into a alien life form (mostly energy psi) that can take over human hosts, usually this leaves a fairly animalistic creature but it can be controlled by others who were luckier with host. Pykers/Psi draw upon extra dimensional energy (how they can violate thermodynamics <grin>) and if one of these buggers gets one for a host ,boom they get all the skills/powers/knowledge ect of the host ...with a desire to breed more... The other team found a planet of humans who were being ruled by this race (humans mainly being kept around to breed more Pykers for cool hosts and well food-mental energy basically) and didn't realize it since the aliens pretend very well. The Pyker (first contact specialist, TP, Face) on their crew was taken over ,the crew thought she died and following protocol ended the survey tour. On the way back it awoke HUNGRY and feed on the first mind it saw, then to cover up the feeding damaged the body in a way that one of the crew could do. Then it wemt in a hibernate state. The last two crew each assumed the other did it. When they returned both were arrested. The alien woke up in the morgue and dominated (TP remember <grin>) the lab tech who arranged for the body to be cremated (by firing it into the sun) as per a "long standing request". It ,of course, was a glitch to carried out the request before the investigation ended. It is now in the brown sector building up a cult ,offering power and eventual immortality. With the long term goal of taking over the station and then spreading throughout human space... Last edited by Zorian; 07-01-2010 at 05:14 AM.

07-01-2010, 06:58 AM	#9
jacobmuller Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Not in your time zone:D	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase The GURPS Spaceships books can't handle the detail you need - they actually tell you Not to use them for space stations of more than SM+16 (10megatons) and Ceres is 9.5x10^11megatons or about 10million times bigger than the design system can handle. It would allow you come up with numbers for Hit Points and DR but I don't think they'd be all that useful. GURPS City Stats would be more useful but, it's about numbers, not maps. __________________ "Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of country = not here when you are:/ It's all in the reflexes

07-10-2010, 03:32 AM	#10
Zorian Join Date: Feb 2006	Re: Help needed in designing a Starbase I bought the Starship book. I like it. Not helpful in building the station as stated but it was REALLY useful in fleshing out the PCs ship. On the station: 1st it was a research station for research vein that it would be better if they were no where near a habitable planet or far in a star's gravity well. So a starport/research facility with attending housing etc at one of the poles. This area is currently being used by the organization the PCs work for. 2nd A military base with shipyards was added on the other pole after the locals Federation of Human planets started running into REALLY hostile aliens who could travel between the stars. The research facility was converted to primarily Xenos studies at this time. Some tunnels connecting the facilities were added during this time and a mining operation was started with eventually honeycombed the dwarf though care was made to leave lots of rock between them and the surface. Surface installations were added sensors, weapons ,small bases for emergency work etc. 3rd After the locals remade contact with the Earth League (PCs are from a descendant government) the facilities use as a military based waned and it became a trade center that specialized in dealing with non-humans. This is the period that most of the indigenous population got here. A third port was added on the equator and a series of warehouses, smaller shipyards and a housing for the workers started this is also the area that the Embassy Row (region where the non-humans live, also has some actual Embassies ,only one major race though). 4th Recently (relatively that is about 1000 years ago) The Federation of Humanity (current main human government) bought the place and based a small military squardren, a Xenos research group and the Project Outreach (who the PCs work for). The trade area still functions but is no where as busy as it used to be. Does this work? Any other ideas? I have pretty much given up on a nice map but if I have it fairly well worked out and written down I think I can work it.