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Old 08-16-2010, 01:22 PM   #1
Danukian
 
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Default Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

Okay - I am starting a Shadowrun style [Cyberpunk + Fantasy] campaign, and was writing up sample characters when I noticed a major discrepancy in point cost for a magic item: I wanted to make a tomahawk that affected insubstantial for a Shaman. There are two ways recommended to do this as listed in The Book: as Signature Gear, or as an Advantage.

As Signature Gear: On B85, each point will give 50% of Starting Wealth -which at TL 9 is $30,000 - or $15,000 per point spent. Following rules in Basic, Magic, Thaumatology and Dungeon Fantasy, a Silver Tomahawk with Accuracy, Puissance and Ghostsword could be squeezed out in 1 point!

As an Advantage: Following the example on Thaumatology 115, The same weapon would be in the 20 point range (It doesn't have the Armor Divisor of the sample sword, or the stabbing Alternate Attack, but it can be thrown)!

Suggestions?
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
Okay - I am starting a Shadowrun style [Cyberpunk + Fantasy] campaign, and was writing up sample characters when I noticed a major discrepancy in point cost for a magic item: I wanted to make a tomahawk that affected insubstantial for a Shaman. There are two ways recommended to do this as listed in The Book: as Signature Gear, or as an Advantage.

As Signature Gear: On B85, each point will give 50% of Starting Wealth -which at TL 9 is $30,000 - or $15,000 per point spent. Following rules in Basic, Magic, Thaumatology and Dungeon Fantasy, a Silver Tomahawk with Accuracy, Puissance and Ghostsword could be squeezed out in 1 point!

As an Advantage: Following the example on Thaumatology 115, The same weapon would be in the 20 point range (It doesn't have the Armor Divisor of the sample sword, or the stabbing Alternate Attack, but it can be thrown)!

Suggestions?
It's been awhile since I played Shadowrun, and I've never been much for playing mages/adepts/whatever in that setting, but to preserve the feel, I'd say you have a Campaign rule that says Sig Gear can only be used for non-magical equipment.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

It's a special ability of the tomahawk, or is it a special ability of the shaman, who makes the weapon affect insubstantial? If someone else takes the tomahawk, does it work for him? Does it always work? Don't think on how it would work on the other system (Each system has it's quirks, the goal of conversions is not to convert the system but the setting), think how you visualize the character.

If it's actually a special ability of the shaman, that can make his weapons affect the spirits. what about Imbue (Single Skill, Ghostly Weapon, -80%) [8]+Ghostly Weapon (Axe/Mace)+Ghostly Weapon (Thrown Weapon, Axe/Mace)*?

*From GURPS Power-Ups 1: Imbuements

Also, keep in mind that the magic item prices from Dungeon Fantasy represent a specific set of economic conditions, making Slow and Sure enchantment cheaper than it would normally be, because you're not hiring someone to enchant the item, you're buying something that was unearthed from a dungeon by another adventuring group.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

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Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
Suggestions?
The RAW kinda wants Enchanted Signature Gear to be paid for based on energy cost, at the 1 CP to 25 energy ratio, and that that cost you'll probably find that the 20 CP Advantage is much cheaper.

The only alternative conversion rate suggested in any 4E publication that I'm aware of is 1 CP to 1000 energy, intended for a very magic-rich setting.

If you happen to be the GM for this campaign, rather than a player, you can of course utilize an intermediate conversion rate, where each CP converts to more than 25 energy of Signature gear, but less thn 1000 energy, but the RAW gives you no guidance whatsoever on what that value shouid be. 100? 400?
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
If it's actually a special ability of the shaman, that can make his weapons affect the spirits. what about Imbue (Single Skill, Ghostly Weapon, -80%) [8]+Ghostly Weapon (Axe/Mace)+Ghostly Weapon (Thrown Weapon, Axe/Mace)*?
This reminds me, I don't know how such a weapon is built, as a Gadget, if it is not an intrinsic trait of the shaman to be able to do this, but rather something that that specific weapon can do.

Can someone enlighten me? I know the end point is the Gadget Limitation, but what RAW Advantage(s) do you apply the Gadget Limitation to?
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
It's a special ability of the tomahawk, or is it a special ability of the shaman, who makes the weapon affect insubstantial? If someone else takes the tomahawk, does it work for him? Does it always work? Don't think on how it would work on the other system (Each system has it's quirks, the goal of conversions is not to convert the system but the setting), think how you visualize the character.
No, it's the Tomahawk - the 20 points includes a -20% for 'Can Be Stolen'


Quote:
Also, keep in mind that the magic item prices from Dungeon Fantasy represent a specific set of economic conditions, making Slow and Sure enchantment cheaper than it would normally be, because you're not hiring someone to enchant the item, you're buying something that was unearthed from a dungeon by another adventuring group.
Yes, I factored in the Cost several ways: Slow and Sure, Quick and Dirty, etc and never made it more than 2 CP.

Quote:
(Fragwulf) It's been awhile since I played Shadowrun, and I've never been much for playing mages/adepts/whatever in that setting, but to preserve the feel, I'd say you have a Campaign rule that says Sig Gear can only be used for non-magical equipment.
Well, Magical Signature Gear is a big thing that separates Shadowrun from Cyberpunk! I am leaning towards 1 CP = 10% for Magical Signature Gear for the moment, but I am still looking for a better suggestion...
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
This reminds me, I don't know how such a weapon is built, as a Gadget, if it is not an intrinsic trait of the shaman to be able to do this, but rather something that that specific weapon can do.

Can someone enlighten me? I know the end point is the Gadget Limitation, but what RAW Advantage(s) do you apply the Gadget Limitation to?
Well TAU115 Gives an example of adding it a Striker Advantage, but the cost does not balance out well compared to building as equipment.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

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Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
Yes, I factored in the Cost several ways: Slow and Sure, Quick and Dirty, etc and never made it more than 2 CP.
Did you adjust for the enchanters earning TL-appropriate pay? Shadowrun enchanters surely don't work for TL3 wages!
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
Okay - I am starting a Shadowrun style [Cyberpunk + Fantasy] campaign, and was writing up sample characters when I noticed a major discrepancy in point cost for a magic item: I wanted to make a tomahawk that affected insubstantial for a Shaman. There are two ways recommended to do this as listed in The Book: as Signature Gear, or as an Advantage.

As Signature Gear: On B85, each point will give 50% of Starting Wealth -which at TL 9 is $30,000 - or $15,000 per point spent. Following rules in Basic, Magic, Thaumatology and Dungeon Fantasy, a Silver Tomahawk with Accuracy, Puissance and Ghostsword could be squeezed out in 1 point!

As an Advantage: Following the example on Thaumatology 115, The same weapon would be in the 20 point range (It doesn't have the Armor Divisor of the sample sword, or the stabbing Alternate Attack, but it can be thrown)!

Suggestions?
I find your math...suspicious. Why are your magic items so cheap? But in any case, advantages are almost always going to come up short when compared to a technology (and magic items are a technology) that does the exact same thing. The answer is to do things with advantages that can't be done with the technology.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Magic Weapon: Advantage or Signature Gear?

Okay - found a mistake in my math - it's a little better, but still unbalanced:

Silver Edged Tomahawk [$40x3 =$120], plus Acc+1 [25,000], Pui+1 [25,000], and Ghost Sword [25,000] = $75,120 or 5 CP.

5 Cp is a little more balanced, and I agree "The answer is to do things with advantages that can't be done with the technology." My my math error made things seem a lot more unbalanced than they were!
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