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Old 09-25-2020, 10:26 PM   #1
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default My tweaks to the Bola

The bola is more compact and not bulky compared to the lariet or net. It still requires time to unravel and spin it up. So, it has less new limitations than the others.

Also, I was trying to limit or clarify which targets can be entangled. With Lasso and Whip it requires ST compared to the target since he would need to be pulled off balance. With the Net it has to do with the size of the spread out net could really only effectively entangle 1 hex creatures. Therefore, I will go with the same 1 hex limitation as the net.

The one thing I noticed about a bola's flight is that it really spreads out. This will make it a tough weapon to use in crowds. So, it gets an additional limitation when it comes to rolling to miss.

These are the changes to the Bola:

BOLA:
- takes a turn to prepare when readying the weapon, regardless of Thrown Weapons skill.
- entanglement is only effective against creatures that are 1 hex in size or smaller.
- you may not roll to miss. If there is a figure or obstacle that would normally require someone throwing to roll to miss, you may not roll to miss.
- when throwing down a seam between hexes, the bola would travel through both hexes instead of miss both. If both are occupied, randomly determine which may be hit first.


IGNORE THE ABOVE. UPDATED BELOW:

UPDATED:

In response to comments from others:

- I am trying to fix the bola, not address how all thrown weapons work. I am okay with -1 DX per hex for range with a bola.

- The Bola is a peculiar weapon and as such it is fitting that its rules differ from the norm. So the DX -4 for head instead of DX -6 makes sense as it is a very wide shot that then wraps.

- I have seen comments elsewhere that all entanglement weapons should require a ST test like that of the shield rush. I strongly disagree with that regarding the bola. It is a weapon used by the cowboys of south america to bring down game, horse, cows and llamas. It is capable of dropping a bull. As bull or horse strength does not make sense in a shield rush type test this is just not a good model. All the bola entanglement rules in TFT should still apply. I will also tweak my 1 hex foe to 2 hex foe.

- The span of the bola is about 6 feet. Wider than a hex. The restriction I added that it cannot pass down a hex seam like a narrow arrow must remain.

- A real bola (used with gauchos to catch horses, game, cattle) and not just a one by survivalist (catching small game like rabbits) takes time to wind up. It is not a fast throw weapon. As such the restriction I added, that once you draw a bola, you may not throw it the same turn with Thrown Weapons talent, must remain.


So, this is where I am at with this. Hopefully this is the final edit for how the bola should be in TFT:


BOLA:
- takes a turn to prepare when readying the weapon, regardless of Thrown Weapons skill.
- entanglement is only effective against creatures that are 2 hex in size or smaller.
- you may not roll to miss. If there is a figure or obstacle that would normally require someone throwing to roll to miss, you may not roll to miss.
- when throwing down a seam between hexes, the bola travels through both hexes instead of missing both. That means if there is an impassable object (pillar, wall, tree, etc) in either the throw is blocked.
- when throwing down a seam between hexes, the bola would travel through both hexes instead of miss both. If both are occupied, randomly determine which may be hit first.

Last edited by Axly Suregrip; 10-12-2020 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 09-26-2020, 07:59 PM   #2
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

In a pinch, you should also be able to use bolas as a flail-like melee weapon.
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:31 PM   #3
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
The bola is more compact and not bulky compared to the lariet or net. It still requires time to unravel and spin it up. So, it has less new limitations than the others.

Also, I was trying to limit or clarify which targets can be entangled. With Lasso and Whip it requires ST compared to the target since he would need to be pulled off balance. With the Net it has to do with the size of the spread out net could really only effectively entangle 1 hex creatures. Therefore, I will go with the same 1 hex limitation as the net.

The one thing I noticed about a bola's flight is that it really spreads out. This will make it a tough weapon to use in crowds. So, it gets an additional limitation when it comes to rolling to miss.

These are the changes to the Bola:

BOLA:
- takes a turn to prepare when readying the weapon, regardless of Thrown Weapons skill.
- entanglement is only effective against creatures that are 1 hex in size or smaller.
- you may not roll to miss. If there is a figure or obstacle that would normally require someone throwing to roll to miss, you may not roll to miss.
- when throwing down a seam between hexes, the bola would travel through both hexes instead of miss both. If both are occupied, randomly determine which may be hit first.
I think these are all sensible. I probably wouldn't bother with the roll-to-miss changes, just because it's an added complication.

I *like* the rule that it takes a turn to ready. I won't implement that rule in the current game I'm playing, since that would seriously nerf an existing player character, but it makes sense in future games.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:44 AM   #4
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the only problem with the rules for entangling thrown weapons is that there are too many of them (rules, that is). My suggestion for a parsimonious, balanced 'fix' that takes in all them at once is:

1) Range penalty for all thrown weapons and spells, including these odd balls, is -1 per MH or fraction thereof, no exceptions.
2) All standard attacks from all weapons, including the special entangling ones, are presumed to target the body. If you want to achieve a hit-location-specific effect, you must take the corresponding optional aiming penalty. In that case, the special effects specified in the weapon description apply.
3) That's it. Otherwise, these weapons are readied, carried, etc. as per standard rules, and their effects on a successful attack are as given in the core book.
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Old 09-30-2020, 11:59 AM   #5
Shostak
 
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Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

Those are straightforward and easy to implement at the table. But, they make wizards a lot more effective at range.
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Old 09-30-2020, 01:42 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

You are perfectly correct that this rule would allow wizards to have an effectiveness at ranges of ~5-10 hexes similar to their RAW effectiveness at ranges of 2-4 hexes. I'm not sure what I think of this difference; on one hand, it means that one specific tactical approach to defeating them would have to be rethought. On the other hand, it makes the 'middle game' of fights at ranges of a few hexes more interesting and varied. I don't think the real consequences can be decided prior to play testing; yes, wizards would have more options, but their enemies would also approach them differently in compensation.
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Old 09-30-2020, 03:38 PM   #7
Helborn
 
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Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

I've always been partial to the boomerang, so I do prefer the Missile range for that weapon - it IS an airfoil.

I would add that the max range for a Thrown Weapon - regardless of DX - is ST # of hexes.
(I have used effective range = ST Hexes and max range = 2xST hexes with anything over effective range requiring 4/DX, 5/DX if dodging BUT I prefer the simpler rule of ST # of hexes.)

AND, Wizards should be stuck with the -1DX/hex adjustment. Only thrown WEAPONS (which are supposed to be balanced for that purpose) should have the -1DX/MH adjustment. (You have to get your body aligned just right at the right point in the incantation to hit the target.)
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:20 PM   #8
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

Adding to the list for clarification. See point before last. An arrow travels a narrow path. A bola needs a 6 foot wide gap with a precise throw. More if the throw is off by even a bit.

These are the changes to the Bola:

BOLA:
- takes a turn to prepare when readying the weapon, regardless of Thrown Weapons skill.
- entanglement is only effective against creatures that are 1 hex in size or smaller.
- you may not roll to miss. If there is a figure or obstacle that would normally require someone throwing to roll to miss, you may not roll to miss.
- when throwing down a seam between hexes, the bola travels through both hexes instead of missing both. That means if there is an impassable object (pillar, wall, tree, etc) in either the throw is blocked.
- when throwing down a seam between hexes, the bola would travel through both hexes instead of miss both. If both are occupied, randomly determine which may be hit first.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:49 AM   #9
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

I did a bit of internet noodling last night re. the efficacies and effective ranges of the boomerang, bola, lasso and net, and came away convinced that RAW is not as crazy as it might seem if you are just using your intuition. A few images of mongol cavalry strangling enemies with lassos and videos of people nailing targets with heavy boomerangs at 80 meter ranges might convince you as well! In any case, given the 'gamist' reasons for more interesting, effective weapons and the historical precedence of these things as effective weapons, I'm happy to just chug along with RAW.

What I don't like is the fact that things intended as lethal throwing weapons (javelin, throwing axe) are functionally useless at ranges greater than 12' or so. This is just silly; they should be able to deliver a meaningful threat out to ranges of about 10 hexes, So, the one house rule that seems like a real shift toward balance is to use about a -1 per MH range penalty for these fit-to-purpose throwing weapons.

Obviously thrown spells should have whatever range penalty suits you as there are no real principles involved. Given the shift in power balance that would come with extending them, sticking with RAW is the conservative choice.

So, bottom line, I think a rational approach is RAW for everything but the javelin and throwing axe, which get a -1/MH penalty; weapons that really are not intended for throwing, like most spears, axes, maces and hammers, can probably stick with -1/hex without offending anyone.
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:02 AM   #10
hcobb
 
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Default Re: My tweaks to the Bola

Remove DX bonus from the Thrown Weapons talent and replace with -1 per MH, including for grenades.
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