Cestus question

[Tenex]

A single cestus is treated like a main-gauche, which, among other things, stops 1 hit of damage. You can also wear 2 cesti. Do you interpret that to mean when wearing 2 cesti the character has 2 hits of armor?

[JimmyPlenty]

I would think so.

[larsdangly]

That's a rational extrapolation, but the rules are mute on this point. And I would have thought that an armor protective value of a cestus would have been noted in its main description block of text. I feel like the more conservative ruling here should be that 'like a main gauche' should be read as 'you can make an off handed attack, like a main gauche', not that the cestus itself has all the properties of the main gauche. That is, I would not award an armor point for 1 or two cesti. This is one of many spots in the rules where a certain looseness of language (and perhaps logic) in the writing seems to permit players to get a free lunch if they mix and match rules in just the right way. But the end result is usually something that violates the basic principles of balance and parity that govern nearly all of the weapon and armor stats. On those grounds, I generally rule against anything that is both too good to be true and not explicitly stated in the rule book.

[Axly Suregrip]

I read it that the cestus DX penalty, when only one is used, is to be exactly the same as a main-gauche. Let me explain why.

First, ITL page 113 is states that "A single cestus is treated exactly like a main-gauche". So it is clear that it is like a MG only when it is a single cestus.

Then when you read about two cesti in the next paragraph, it is the DX penalty that is treated differently.

I would also add that a cestus is not a parrying weapon. A main gauche or a sai has quillions meant for catching the blow. A cestus is basically a brutal boxing glove. Here is a roman sculpture of a cesti boxer "Boxer at Rest":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_at_Rest
As you can see, nothing about that makes it a weapon that would excel at parries.


BTW, if you want a good thread about main-gauche and two weapons seeL
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168333

[larsdangly]

Agreed; I interpret this text to be about the DX penalties associated with making the off handed attack, and only that. But, it is one of about a dozen places where the rules are quite confusing when it comes to two-handed and off-handed weapon use!

[larsdangly]

By the way, what does this part of the hive mind make of the Legacy Edition treatment of multiple HTH attacks? My long-term memory on this issue was that you get a +4 DX adjustment for any single HTH attack, and make 2 attacks (say, two punches, or a dagger and a punch) with no DX adjustment. But I'm not confident LE is identical to this; it is surprisingly hard to track down the statement about the +4 bonus and I can't recall what it says about two attacks. Anyone out there have the RAW details ready to mind?

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

By the way, what does this part of the hive mind make of the Legacy Edition treatment of multiple HTH attacks? My long-term memory on this issue was that you get a +4 DX adjustment for any single HTH attack, and make 2 attacks (say, two punches, or a dagger and a punch) with no DX adjustment. But I'm not confident LE is identical to this; it is surprisingly hard to track down the statement about the +4 bonus and I can't recall what it says about two attacks. Anyone out there have the RAW details ready to mind?

The +4 quote is on page 117.

[larsdangly]

I did find that one in the new edition, but how about a statement re. the penalty for making two HTH attacks in the same turn?

[hcobb]

To make two HTH attacks in a single turn you need stompable foes, Cestus (ITL 113), UC V (ITL 44) or a Dagger Staff IV+.

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I did find that one in the new edition, but how about a statement re. the penalty for making two HTH attacks in the same turn?

The left hand weapons blurb on pg 111 allows for a normal attack and a second dagger attack against the same foe at -4 DX. That could get you to an fist attack at +4 DX and a second attack with the dagger against the same foe at normal DX (bonus and penalty cancel out).

Cestus rules on 112 indicate that you could make two attacks with two cesti on and each would be at -3 DX (HTH would seem to move that to DX +1 on each).

Both rules would, to me tend to support allowing two fist punches with the first at +4 DX and the second, against the same opponent, at normal DX (bonus and penalty cancel), but I am interpreting from the available text and may have left something out. But, not to worry, I'm sure somebody will find fault and tell me off.

Of course, I've frequently been told that I don't know what I'm doing or that I don't play this game the right way, so you may want to take this with a grain of salt.