Unhealing

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

That's not what it says. It says "You can also heal yourself by stealing HP from others using Vampiric Bite (p. 96), magic, or psionics." Or in other words, it lists three different ways to steal HP.

No it doesn't. "stealing HP from others using Vampiric Bite" is a complete thought. Magic and psionics are other ways to heal.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by Bruno

"Regeneration with an extreme Accessibility limitation is fine, and may well even be "magic or psionics." As always in GURPS, the special case overrides the blanket rule."

That doesn't say spells. If you read the complete quote, he was talking about advantages from magic and psi powers.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No it doesn't. "stealing HP from others using Vampiric Bite" is a complete thought. Magic and psionics are other ways to heal.

I would disagree and the first quote I included from Kromm disagrees too. To paraphrase that quote,

"Doesn't heal naturally – just by spells" is at most a quirk. Spells are so vastly better than natural healing that natural healing ceases to be relevant. That's most of the reason why you can't have Unhealing or similar traits alongside spells.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

I would disagree and the first quote I included from Kromm disagrees too. To paraphrase that quote,

"Doesn't heal naturally – just by spells" is at most a quirk. Spells are so vastly better than natural healing that natural healing ceases to be relevant. That's most of the reason why you can't have Unhealing or similar traits alongside spells.

This has to be an April Fool's joke. You can't just change the words of someone's quote as justification that they agree with you.

[Dragondog]

I'm making a point. Spells are better than natural healing, so the altered quote should still be just as true.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Spells are better than natural healing...

That is highly subjective.

1 - They are faster: Positive.
2 - They require advanced knowledge. Natural healing (and by extension Regeneration) does not: Negative.
3 - Spells are fatiguing: Eh... it's a wash. Trade a little fatigue for health? It's a strategic call either way, having options is generally a Positive.
4 - And lastly, Spells are further Character Point sink, completely natural healing is not: Negative.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

I'm making a point. Spells are better than natural healing, so the altered quote should still be just as true.

It isn't. Vanilla Regeneration is something the character always has access to. Even when he's unconscious and alone. This does not at all apply to healing spells.

[Edges]

Unrestricted regeneration (which is what Kromm was referring to) is just the better version of natural healing. It works just like natural healing in every way except it is faster.

Spells are a totally different mechanism. They have significant, fundamental limitations:

• Perhaps most importantly, they are not passive (with a few exceptions). You need to be awake, have your wits about you, have the skill, be able to speak and perform gestures (in most cases), use one or more Concentrate maneuvers, etc.
• They cost FP. This can be precious and in some cases, just not available. I've seen plenty of times when a caster was down enough FP from sleep debt, starvation, cold, etc. that using spells just wasn't an option.
• They are subject to magic counter measures like no mana zones, meta-magic, and magic resistance.

I think the point Kromm was making was that these types of limitations on spells were enough to justify their use in conjunction with Unhealing and that if Regeneration had roughly commensurate limitations, it too could be used in conjunction. But not otherwise.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by Edges

Unrestricted regeneration (which is what Kromm was referring to) is just the better version of natural healing. It works just like natural healing in every way except it is faster.

Spells are a totally different mechanism. They have significant, fundamental limitations:

• Perhaps most importantly, they are not passive (with a few exceptions). You need to be awake, have your wits about you, have the skill, be able to speak and perform gestures (in most cases), use one or more Concentrate maneuvers, etc.
• They cost FP. This can be precious and in some cases, just not available. I've seen plenty of times when a caster was down enough FP from sleep debt, starvation, cold, etc. that using spells just wasn't an option.
• They are subject to magic counter measures like no mana zones, meta-magic, and magic resistance.

I think the point Kromm was making was that these types of limitations on spells were enough to justify their use in conjunction with Unhealing and that if Regeneration had roughly commensurate limitations, it too could be used in conjunction. But not otherwise.

You have a point. And I just remembered that repeated use of Healing and healing spells have a -3 penalty per casting, something I never use, that do make those worse than natural healing.

So thanks all for helping me work that out.

[Dead Monky]

A cruel, bored or irritated GM can make healing spells downright dangerous too. Playing around with the magic levels, modifiers and critical failure thresholds (or simply being extremely strict with them) can make the use of healing spells a calculated risk. I have a few places in the my games where using healing spells is like playing Russian roulette. Using other spells is like playing with a semi-auto. Makes the players squirm, but it's also forced the spellcasters to get creative.