Arms and Legs that Kick and Punch

[Hide]

I'm currently working on some character concepts, and my research led me to an entry from gaming ballistic regarding "Arms and Legs that Kick and Punch". While I grasp the ideas behind the usual limb reach and the guidelines presented on the article, I started wondering about other details regarding "legs that punch".

1. What happens when I decide using my legs to "punch"? Can I move normally?
2. If I declare my feet are manipulators and I employ them to punch, can I employ boxing skills?
3. Do I get my boxing bonuses?
4. Is my knee strike going to become an elbow strike?
5. What if I buy more reach for my "extra arms" (the legs)? Am I going to punch at reach c, 1?
6. Conceptually, would extra reach make the legs physically longer? (After all, you can kick at reach 1 and by buying more reach you simply restore the original reach when landing a “punch” using legs)
7. And then (assuming I got extra reach), if I grab a reach 1 sword with my foot, is it going to strike at reach 2 ?

Thanks for your comments,

[Plane]

It's hard to imagine a giant spider like the one pictured doing something resembling a punch or kick (or elbow or knee). I think I'd buy down their ST, buy the HP back up, and then just give them lots of Lifting ST to use for grappling.

1) well, throwing kicks doesn't really seem to impede normal movement, aside from being unable to build up to a Sprint, which requires a Move maneuver (presumably not Move and Attack) but that same thing prevents you from moving at full speed while punching too. The best way I can think to approximate realism would be to buy some of your Basic Move with "Cannot Kick" as a temporary disadvantage.

2+3) do you mean what Cole said about taking Arms with the Foot Manipulator option? They can do anything arms can do, they just come with a temporary disadvantage of being Lame while doing so.

4) Foot Manipulators are at root advantage, an arm, so I think you would use rules for elbowing rather than kneeing. Although you can probably 'knee' with them too, when you aren't your Extra Arm, you regain the function of your legs after all.

5) if you buy long arms, you get longer punches... even if they are foot manipulators. That said: you would not get extra reach for your kicks, because you didn't buy extra reach for when they are used as legs.

6) I think it would make sense for the GM to make you buy the same reach for your kicks as your punches. Otherwise, the difference in length could be explained by posture or metamorphosis.

7) creatures of larger SM get bonuses to their reach, I assume for melee weapons as well as unarmed combat. I imagine you also get bonuses to reach for long arms, if you pay for them. Just so long as it isn't anything like trying to get long arms for free by paying the cheaper cost of longer legs.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Hide

I'm currently working on some character concepts, and my research led me to an entry from gaming ballistic regarding "Arms and Legs that Kick and Punch". While I grasp the ideas behind the usual limb reach and the guidelines presented on the article, I started wondering about other details regarding "legs that punch".

1. What happens when I decide using my legs to "punch"? Can I move normally?
2. If I declare my feet are manipulators and I employ them to punch, can I employ boxing skills?
3. Do I get my boxing bonuses?
4. Is my knee strike going to become an elbow strike?
5. What if I buy more reach for my "extra arms" (the legs)? Am I going to punch at reach c, 1?
6. Conceptually, would extra reach make the legs physically longer? (After all, you can kick at reach 1 and by buying more reach you simply restore the original reach when landing a “punch” using legs)
7. And then (assuming I got extra reach), if I grab a reach 1 sword with my foot, is it going to strike at reach 2 ?

Thanks for your comments,

Using a leg to punch doesn't leap out at me as being described in my old article. It may be that the easiest way to look at things is to define a punch as "that which an arm does" and a kick as "that which a leg does."

If you need it for mobility, if picking up a few of them makes you fall down, and if they would strike at DX-2, it's a leg and "kicks."

If you manipulate with it at full DX and can still be mobile if those limbs are tied together, it's an arm and it "punches."

I think there's a Long Arms and Long Legs modifier in either Basic or Powers that talks to reach; my development of the extra reach (or less reach idea) was just an attempt to rationalize reach by using the SSR table, as I always do.

Ultimately, as a GM, I'd look at what your character is trying to do and apply the rules accordingly, not look at the rules and try and define the abilities.

An elbow strike isn't just a strike with an elbow. It's a short-range strike into your back hex. A knee strike is a Reach C kick that is hard to defend if you've also got your foe grappled.

If the physiology difference for your limbs is squishy, then I'd go with effects. Striking short-range into a back hex? Use elbow strike mechanics. Striking at Reach C on someone you've grappled? That's either an uppercut or a knee strike . . . which honestly don't look that different when you squint at them. Both do thrust crush, both are skill -1, and both are reach C.