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Old 04-01-2018, 06:54 PM   #1
Sorenant
 
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Default Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

Making my first character with Insubstantiality advantage, I'm a little confused about how it works.
First off, how do I make it so the character can attack normally (specifically, bite) while insubstantial? Is Affect Insubstantial (+100%) enough? Do I need to find out the difference of an Innate Attack equivalent to the bite with and without Affect Substantial (+40%)? Also, just in case I need it in the future, how would it work if I were to attack with a weapon (eg sword or gun)? I'm sure I would also need to have Carry Object enhancement but what else?
The second question is just to be sure, the character also has Sonar so if I want to use it while insubstantial I need Affect Substantial on both Insubstantiality and Sonar, correct?
Finally, Insubstantiality grants the ability to move freely through space but my character already have something similar (Walk on Air), is it possible to apply some limitation to remove the free floating from Insubstantiality to save some points?
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

You need the Affects Substantial on Insubstantial and the advantage used to attack with.
And no limitation on Insubstantial because he has another advantage that lets him move around.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
You need the Affects Substantial on Insubstantial and the advantage used to attack with.
Thank for the answer but I'm still in the dark. Biting is a natural attack, not an advantage, how do I handle this?

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And no limitation on Insubstantial because he has another advantage that lets him move around.
That's unfortunate but I can live with that.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

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Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
Thank for the answer but I'm still in the dark. Biting is a natural attack, not an advantage, how do I handle this?
If its a bite your good, if its an advantage like Natural Weapon (From Pyramid) or Innate Attack you need to enhance it.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
If its a bite your good, if its an advantage like Natural Weapon (From Pyramid) or Innate Attack you need to enhance it.
As in Affect Substantial in Insubstantiality is enough to be able to use natural unarmed attacks (ie bite, punch, kick, slam) while insubstantial? Great! Thanks for the clarification.

Do you perhaps know the answer for the question about Sonar while insubstantial? Normal senses like vision and hearing works normally regardless substantiality and an old comment by Kromm says Scanning Senses can detect insubstantial beings so I assume the inverse is true? As in Sonar doesn't need enhancement to work while insubstantial?

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Old 04-01-2018, 07:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

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As in Affect Substantial in Insubstantiality is enough to be able to use natural unarmed attacks (ie bite, punch, kick, slam) while insubstantial? Great! Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah, though if you buy up ST its fair to require that be enhanced. But I wouldnt bother unless ts a Supers type game.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

I went into the whole situation with attacking from Insubstantial in a blog post ("Touching the Ghost")
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

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Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
Finally, Insubstantiality grants the ability to move freely through space but my character already have something similar (Walk on Air), is it possible to apply some limitation to remove the free floating from Insubstantiality to save some points?
You can certainly save points by limiting Walk on Air (not while Insubstantial), but I don't see a problem with removing part of the functionality of the more expensive ad and replacing it with a comparable but less versatile advantage. In the past, I have used -25% to take away the 3D movement of Insub. characters.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I went into the whole situation with attacking from Insubstantial in a blog post ("Touching the Ghost")
Awesome, favorited! Though it seems I'll have to change approach, +40% on ST will get very expensive (It's an ST 48 Orca) while the Spirit Meta-Trait is already eating up most of the CP budget.

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
You can certainly save points by limiting Walk on Air (not while Insubstantial), but I don't see a problem with removing part of the functionality of the more expensive ad and replacing it with a comparable but less versatile advantage. In the past, I have used -25% to take away the 3D movement of Insub. characters.
This contradicts Refplace's position but I'm temped to use it. Being able to remove 3D movements is helpful, Insubstantiality does not always comes with it (eg Skyrim's Become Ethereal power).
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Natural Attacks When Insubstantial

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Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
Awesome, favorited! Though it seems I'll have to change approach, +40% on ST will get very expensive (It's an ST 48 Orca) while the Spirit Meta-Trait is already eating up most of the CP budget.
Yeah a 48 ST is enough I would go with enhancing ST too. its more RAW and fairer to other players. ST 11 or 12? I wouldn't make the player bother.
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