Different Layers of Elevation on a Map?

FireHorse · 03-31-2019, 09:56 PM

Representing a slope is easy enough, but what if there are two levels at the same hex? That is, two hexes that share the same X and Y, but different Z — one is above the other, and both are clear to be occupied by figures.

I don't mean two completely separate layers, though. Both levels have clear lines of sight (and therefore combat) with other hexes that are adjacent to the lower level.

The situation arises in the design of a ship. I have a main deck, and of course there are decks below — but there are also partial decks above the main deck ('partial' meaning they don't run the whole length of the ship, just each end), and parts of those are not enclosed. This means there are places where someone might be engaged in combat simultaneously from an adjacent hex at the same level and by a hex one level higher.

The best solution I can think of is a separate map for each layer, and paying careful attention to which edge hexes from the upper layer "go with" which ones on the lower.

But man, that seems clunky and inelegant. And it also increases the amount of printing and cutting and crafty-stuff that a potential downloader of my ship has to do.

So I humbly invite better ideas, if anyone has any…

Skarg · 04-01-2019, 10:10 AM

With some types of complex 3D areas it can get pretty clunky, and then hard to figure out lines of fire and so on, unless you build some 3D structure and/or map each level.

If it's limited such as people in the rigging over a ship's deck, you can draw the masts and cross-pieces and then use counters to indicate some figures are up on top of something.

Or, you can do cut-out sections like you suggest (the issue of how they connect comes up),
or you can do full maps for each level, and grey out the hexes on each level that are just for reference.

e.g. If you just had a forecastle, there could be one map for the main deck that also shows the inside of the forecastle that is at the same level as the main deck. And then you could have a parallel map that shows the TOP of the forecastle, and the main deck, but the main deck would be greyed out on that map.

amenditman · 04-01-2019, 05:26 PM

I've seen some very impressive 3d isometric dungeons that deal with this problem very well.

They take tons of practice to get good at

FireHorse · 04-01-2019, 06:49 PM

I considered trying something isometric in nature, but I don't think it would work. Drawing it would be easy enough (I've been doing graphic design for a looong time), but I don't think there's any good way to implement it on the table.

Nothing that saves any significant space over parallel non-isometric maps, anyway. Plus, anything other than normal overhead views would look out of place with all the Official Megahexes.

So, clunky or not, it seems putting the layers in parallel is probably the best option.

But that means five or six potential layers of map for this ship of mine…

+3: Crow's Nest
+2: Stern (Poop Deck / Sterncastle)
+1: Stern (Quarterdeck); Bow (Forecastle)
0: Main Deck
-1: Lower Deck
-2: Main Cargo Hold

…so now I wonder if maybe I should have settled for a nice, simple Drakkar or Xebec or something, instead of a Carrack.

But I'm really happy that our technological level peaks around the 15th century or so, because there is no way I would even attempt something like a Galleon. ;)

JLV · 04-01-2019, 09:22 PM

Frankly, the only good ways I've seen to implement it on the table are with things like Heroscape hexes or miniatures builds (like what Phil Reed has been making for tournament play). Which is not to say that some clever graphic artist won't come up with something tomorrow that works.

Maybe pitch the problem to Dyson Logos and see what he comes up with?

03-31-2019, 09:56 PM	#1
FireHorse Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dayton, Ohio	Different Layers of Elevation on a Map? Representing a slope is easy enough, but what if there are two levels at the same hex? That is, two hexes that share the same X and Y, but different Z — one is above the other, and both are clear to be occupied by figures. I don't mean two completely separate layers, though. Both levels have clear lines of sight (and therefore combat) with other hexes that are adjacent to the lower level. The situation arises in the design of a ship. I have a main deck, and of course there are decks below — but there are also partial decks above the main deck ('partial' meaning they don't run the whole length of the ship, just each end), and parts of those are not enclosed. This means there are places where someone might be engaged in combat simultaneously from an adjacent hex at the same level and by a hex one level higher. The best solution I can think of is a separate map for each layer, and paying careful attention to which edge hexes from the upper layer "go with" which ones on the lower. But man, that seems clunky and inelegant. And it also increases the amount of printing and cutting and crafty-stuff that a potential downloader of my ship has to do. So I humbly invite better ideas, if anyone has any…

04-01-2019, 10:10 AM	#2
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Different Layers of Elevation on a Map? With some types of complex 3D areas it can get pretty clunky, and then hard to figure out lines of fire and so on, unless you build some 3D structure and/or map each level. If it's limited such as people in the rigging over a ship's deck, you can draw the masts and cross-pieces and then use counters to indicate some figures are up on top of something. Or, you can do cut-out sections like you suggest (the issue of how they connect comes up), or you can do full maps for each level, and grey out the hexes on each level that are just for reference. e.g. If you just had a forecastle, there could be one map for the main deck that also shows the inside of the forecastle that is at the same level as the main deck. And then you could have a parallel map that shows the TOP of the forecastle, and the main deck, but the main deck would be greyed out on that map.

04-01-2019, 05:26 PM	#3
amenditman Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Florida Peninsula, Earth, Sol Sytem	Re: Different Layers of Elevation on a Map? I've seen some very impressive 3d isometric dungeons that deal with this problem very well. They take tons of practice to get good at __________________ The first rule of GMing "If you make it, players will break it"

04-01-2019, 06:49 PM	#4
FireHorse Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dayton, Ohio	Re: Different Layers of Elevation on a Map? I considered trying something isometric in nature, but I don't think it would work. Drawing it would be easy enough (I've been doing graphic design for a looong time), but I don't think there's any good way to implement it on the table. Nothing that saves any significant space over parallel non-isometric maps, anyway. Plus, anything other than normal overhead views would look out of place with all the Official Megahexes. So, clunky or not, it seems putting the layers in parallel is probably the best option. But that means five or six potential layers of map for this ship of mine… +3: Crow's Nest +2: Stern (Poop Deck / Sterncastle) +1: Stern (Quarterdeck); Bow (Forecastle) 0: Main Deck -1: Lower Deck -2: Main Cargo Hold …so now I wonder if maybe I should have settled for a nice, simple Drakkar or Xebec or something, instead of a Carrack. But I'm really happy that our technological level peaks around the 15th century or so, because there is no way I would even attempt something like a Galleon. ;)

04-01-2019, 09:22 PM	#5
JLV Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Arizona	Re: Different Layers of Elevation on a Map? Frankly, the only good ways I've seen to implement it on the table are with things like Heroscape hexes or miniatures builds (like what Phil Reed has been making for tournament play). Which is not to say that some clever graphic artist won't come up with something tomorrow that works. Maybe pitch the problem to Dyson Logos and see what he comes up with?