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08-17-2010, 03:24 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Danville, VA USA
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[DF] Backstabber powerup from DF11
The Backstabber powerup contains a Hard technique called "Disappear", The first level of Backstabber gives you 6 pts in this technique for Stealth -5. So this technique must default to Stealth -10. So far so good. But the descriptive text says that the Basic Penalty (DF 2 p11) of -5 to Stealth to disappear is negated for someone with the first level. So "Disappear" should be Stealth -0. Is this errata, or am I missing something?
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08-17-2010, 03:33 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: [DF] Backstabber powerup from DF11
Quote:
The FIRST -5 of the penalty implies that there's more penalty. That's the -5 for ANYWHERE but brush or shadowy tunnels, or encumberance, or being surprised, etc etc. It's almost always at least -10 (because in brush or shadowy areas the PCs often get surprised instead of do the surprising, and you can't buy up the technique to cover the situational modifiers.
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08-17-2010, 03:48 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Danville, VA USA
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Re: [DF] Backstabber powerup from DF11
That's what I missed. (The -5 for the lack of bushes or shadows to hide in.)
I assumed that all situational mods were applied to the technique after the fact and not built in. So the Backstabber should get a +5 Bonus if he does his thing in Shadowy tunnels or bushes or whatever? Seems wonky to me. Does the "Disappear" technique appear anywhere else but DF 11 and in Action 3? Last edited by umbros; 08-17-2010 at 03:51 PM. |
08-17-2010, 05:08 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: [DF] Backstabber powerup from DF11
No?
OK. The base "Vanish at the start of combat and reappear behind someone" thing is -5. The Backstabber has bought off that -5, and only that -5, and can't buy off any of the other penalties. In an ideal situation - shadowy tunnels, ambushing the other guy, no encumberance, etc etc, the back stabber is rolling at a total of +5, it breaks down as: -5 Vanishing +5 Backstabber +5 Ambushing +0 SHadowy tunnels. Worst case scenario is being surprised somehow in a featureless plain with bright lights: -5 Vanishing +5 Backstabber -5 Surprised! -5 Not brush or shadowy tunnels for a total of -10 (not counting encumberance). The backstabber can be said to have +5, but that JUST offsets the -5 for Vanishing.
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08-17-2010, 05:22 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [DF] Backstabber powerup from DF11
The backstabber can buy off other penalties, though. The text says so explicitly.
I don't understand why they didn't list it as being bought up from Stealth-5 (default) to Stealth+4 (With Backstabber 3). The way it's written seems wrong.
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08-17-2010, 05:27 PM | #6 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [DF] Backstabber powerup from DF11
Because Stealth+4 implies that you might sometimes roll vs. Stealth+4. You never do. Most utility techniques that remove penalties are normed to the maximum penalty they can erase, not to some midpoint value, to avoid any confusion about whether you ever get a net bonus out of buying up the technique. This is also why, say, Close Combat (Two-Handed Sword) defaults to Two-handed Sword-8, even though a bokken or jo is Reach 1 and only ever has -4. If we said it ranged from -4 to +4 instead of -8 to 0, then somebody somewhere would interpret that as letting a bokken or jo strike at +4 in close combat . . .
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08-17-2010, 05:26 PM | #7 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [DF] Backstabber powerup from DF11
Disappear canonically defaults to Stealth-10, per p. 16 of Action 3. This assumes the base -5 plus another -5 in miscellaneous penalties. The maximum removable penalty is -10. Recording this as a technique that defaults at -10 is purely a notational convenience that makes this clear.
As far as DF is concerned, techniques don't even exist. The note showing how the power-up was built is just there for GMs who want to improvise. As such, it uses the canonical technique from Action 3 rather than a special DF version that defaults at Stealth-5. That way, the extra -5 from encumbrance, lack of cover, etc. is built in. I could have created a variant that started at Stealth-5 and went up to Stealth+5, but that would have been troublesome, as you'd never actually use Stealth+5; at most, you can wipe out penalties enough to use full Stealth. Also, it would mean two techniques with the same name and different defaults.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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backstab, dungeon fantasy, stealth |
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