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Old 01-30-2017, 02:43 PM   #1
Roh
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

My second post of the day. Seeking opinions on this one. Lets say you have use Two separate enchanted items. One with Essential Fire and one with Essential Air. Both have the power enchantment strong enough to power their selves. Do you think that considering both alone are supposed to provide a hotter flame means they would make for more efficient hot air balloons, able to lift more weight for their size?

If so what do you think would be a reasonable difference? A percentage? Double? Possibly more? I know as the GM of a world I could make it whatever but I prefer to make it as logical as I can within the setting and honestly don't know enough of the science behind hot air balloons.

Any intelligent and/or amusing thoughts would be welcome and appreciated! :)
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

The real measure of lifting power is how large an area is enclosed by the balloon. I dont see either spell helping with that.
However it would let the balloon fill up faster.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:05 PM   #3
mr beer
 
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

Essential Fire gives you a hotter fire but I think hotter fire just means a more efficient 'engine' to inflate the balloon, I don't think it goes higher.

Essential Air isn't 'floatier' for want of a better word, so I don't see how that helps.

Using an Essential Fire engine (light and fast) to heat a balloon in combination with conjured Air Elementals to steer it around could lead to fantasy blimps, which can be very useful.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:10 PM   #4
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roh View Post
My second post of the day. Seeking opinions on this one. Lets say you have use Two separate enchanted items. One with Essential Fire and one with Essential Air. Both have the power enchantment strong enough to power their selves. Do you think that considering both alone are supposed to provide a hotter flame means they would make for more efficient hot air balloons, able to lift more weight for their size?
It is the fundamental nature of fire to rise (we're dealing with Aristotelian elements, after all). A hot air balloon heated by Essential Fire should provide 3 times normal lift, whether or not you use Essential Air; Essential Air would have no effect on the lifting ability of the balloon, as that's not part of the nature of Air.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:18 PM   #5
Roh
 
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

Hmm. As aside from the effects of magic and divine intervention I want to go with a world guided more by natural science I think I am leaning toward the larger balloon size.

But then those two enchantments working together would help save a great deal of weight in fuel at least. I'm not looking for big honking air ships, as awesome as they are. More just for a not impossible and desirable use for them in the setting I have in mind.

I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the input so far!
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

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Originally Posted by Roh View Post
Hmm. As aside from the effects of magic and divine intervention I want to go with a world guided more by natural science I think I am leaning toward the larger balloon size.

But then those two enchantments working together would help save a great deal of weight in fuel at least. I'm not looking for big honking air ships, as awesome as they are. More just for a not impossible and desirable use for them in the setting I have in mind.

I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the input so far!
Go for an Essential Material spell to strengthen the material the blimp is made of and maybe lighten it as well. Tht will help with bigger and sturdier balloons or blimps.
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My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:39 PM   #7
Roh
 
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

I was thinking along those lines. Like maybe Essential wood. LoL Don't recall seeing essential wicker anywhere. ;)
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:29 PM   #8
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
It is the fundamental nature of fire to rise (we're dealing with Aristotelian elements, after all). A hot air balloon heated by Essential Fire should provide 3 times normal lift, whether or not you use Essential Air; Essential Air would have no effect on the lifting ability of the balloon, as that's not part of the nature of Air.
Don't fires in Essential Air more-or-less function like Essential Fire? If so, I'd say that so long as the air the flame for the balloon and the air in the balloon are Essential Air, you get 3x lift. If you end up with something that is both - Essential Fire powering a hot-air balloon full of Essential Air - I'd say the effects are additive, not multiplicative, for 5x lift.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:25 PM   #9
Roh
 
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

The spell states specifically that the effect even applies to essential fare. But does not seem to specify the amount. Unless you want to carry over the x3 from breath-ability. They seem like two different statements to me.

I am actually considering a far more useful idea. Create Air... Once Helium and its use is discovered.. There is no reason a mage couldn't have experimented and made a create Helium spell. And even giving it the same cost as create Essential Air it's not an extremely unreasonable enchantment even adding the Power enchantment so anyone could operate it.

And that would actually make Airships MORE common! The biggest problems with air ships are Hydrogen is flammable and Helium is rare on earth. This fits perfectly with the world I had in mind!

I am sort of imagining it as An onyx hub sealed into the wall of the balloon at the bottom of one end. The area of create helium would be increased to two so it would essentially be creating a 3 yard wide bubble of helium in the empty balloon every three seconds. It might take a while to fill a big ass airship balloon but I doubt so long as it counter the value. It would be self powered and so cost... 5600 energy to enchant? Not exactly cheap but again certainly worth the value.

Heh I even imagine the balloon having a vent at the far end on the bottom so it could change altitude and so that the pressure of the ships weight might squeeze out less pure helium as fresh pure helium was created and rose higher in the balloon. Maybe not exactly right correct science but seems logical enough for me. lol

Airships!!!
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:14 PM   #10
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Essential Air + Essential Fire = Better Hot Air Balloon?

If you want thermodynamics instead of Aristotelian elements, then PV = nRT. P is a slowly changing function of height, and at any instant can be treated as a constant. n is the amount of gas in the balloon, which is increasing as you put hot air in, but becomes constant when the balloon is full. R is always a constant.

So when the balloon is full, its density is equal to n/V. Solving the equation, n/V = P/RT. If Essential Fire makes the air three times as hot, then the density is three times as low, which is going to fairly substantially increase the lift.
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