Status For Outlaws

[scc]

OK, for an upcoming Banestorm game I figure that one of the character types my players are likely to run across a lot are outlaws, brigands and the like, one question I need to answer is what is the status of these guys? Are they -1, like peasants? Or -2 like slaves? Or even worse? Or do they have Status 0 with a reputation?

[Not]

I think they can have any status, but also have social stigma. Some versions of Robin Hood have him a noble, for example.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Not

I think they can have any status, but also have social stigma. Some versions of Robin Hood have him a noble, for example.

Yes, I agree. Becoming outlawed doesn't change your Status. Anyone can get outlawed without a Status change. You merely get a Social Stigma. Effective Status change can be understood as initial Status minus whatever the penalty from that particular Social Stigma is, but actual Status shouldn't change. Nobles, priests, even Kings could get outlawed. That didn't cause them to lose their Status, it merely flavoured their Status.

[RobKamm]

Status probably wouldn't change directly. However, traits that have imputed Status may be damaged resulting in a decrease in Status.

Consider a Wealthy (Wealth 2; +1 Status) nobleman (Feudal Rank 4; for the example we'll assume that FR doesn't replace Status in this setting; +1 Status) he's also got Status +1 because his family is famous and kewl. Total Status 3.

He becomes an outlaw and the King and/or Parliament strips him of Rank; -1 Status. As an outlaw he also loses most of his economic connections and is forced to live off the land and whatever booty he can acquire; -1 Wealth level loses another level of Status. The outlaw is now a Comfortable outlaw of Status 1 (he still comes from that famous family).

If he still styles himself Baron (FR 4's title) and his gang use that title he might have Courtesy Rank 4 (or use Social Engineering to design a lesser Rank system to describe his reduced circumstances). If the setting includes frequent forgiveness of crimes he might also get to keep his former Wealth and Rank as potential advantages. I'll leave that possibility to someone with pen and paper to hand to work through.

[Nereidalbel]

I'd go with the 0 and a Reputation. Depending on their actual actions, they may even have a positive Reputation with civilians, while law enforcement wants their heads on plates.

[aesir23]

"Outlaw" is sort of the standard by which all Social Stigmas are gauged. An outlaw was literally outside the law--no rights, no legal protection, and if someone decides to murder you it's perfectly legal for them to do so.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by aesir23

"Outlaw" is sort of the standard by which all Social Stigmas are gauged. An outlaw was literally outside the law--no rights, no legal protection, and if someone decides to murder you it's perfectly legal for them to do so.

Do they still use outlawry in the setting?

[GoldenMonkey]

It probably also depends on what they're outlawed for and what the penalties are for their crimes. Wealthy pensioners who the government would like to collect back taxes on are a little different than chainsaw hobos who like to dismember school children.

If it's not obvious that they're outlaws by their dress, speech, equipment, etc. then I would let them keep their original status and just give them the appropriate Disadvantages (like Enemies). If "outlaw" has a distinct meaning in the world, like "all outlaws are wandering vagabonds in the area of the Storm Sea" then it should have its own associated Status ranking.

[scc]

Originally Posted by GoldenMonkey

It probably also depends on what they're outlawed for and what the penalties are for their crimes. Wealthy pensioners who the government would like to collect back taxes on are a little different than chainsaw hobos who like to dismember school children.

If it's not obvious that they're outlaws by their dress, speech, equipment, etc. then I would let them keep their original status and just give them the appropriate Disadvantages (like Enemies). If "outlaw" has a distinct meaning in the world, like "all outlaws are wandering vagabonds in the area of the Storm Sea" then it should have its own associated Status ranking.

I'm thinking more murder-hobos, the sort who ambush travelers on county roads and take everything they own, or at least everything valuable. The first adventure/encounter will be rescuing a 'merchant' who was captured by some bandits and the merchant will make a mistake and the party will find out they weren't exactly working for who they thought they were

[Phantasm]

Enemy (Law Enforcement) seems to be the key trait of outlaws, IMO. Effective Status tends to be 0, even if, like some depictions of Robin Hood, they have Courtesy Status 2+.