Lightsaber combat forms

[Rocket Man]

Looks like you're off to a good start. I might make a few suggestions for the sake of color:

1) In creating Form II, you might take a look at the Spanish fencing style listed in GURPS Martial Arts. It's very minimalist and efficient, rather than flashy and swashbuckling, which would seem to mimic that lightsaber style rather well.

2) For form III, optional advantages might include Common Sense. Soresu masters tend to be patient and forebearing well beyond the normal human capacity (Obi-Wan was a natural).

3) For form IV -- which is a very swashbuckling style -- consider adding Overconfidence as an optional disadvantage.

4) Form V users tend to be unusually aggressive for Jedi. You might consider building in some of the "pushier" disadvantages as options, such as Bad Temper, Stubbornness or even (in extreme cases of a Jedi about to fall) Bloodlust. And if I understand correctly, Form V would also have precognitive parry -- these Jedi specialize in reflecting an opponent's shot back at him rather than just blocking it.

5) Status or a reputation as a peacemaker could go with Form VI as an optional advantage -- it's known as the diplomat's style and tends to be used by those Jedi who are more councillors than warriors.

6) Given how risky a style Form VII is (it requires you to skirt the edge of the Dark Side), Strong Will would be a real good idea for an optional advantage. Mace certainly had it. This will be a hard one to build, since it's optimized for unpredictability. Maybe there's some ideas to be had in the Martial Arts writeup on Jeet Kune Do, a similarly "unpatterned" style.

I'll add more comments once I've had a chance to get back to my copy of Martial Arts. Hope this helps.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Looks like you're off to a good start. I might make a few suggestions for the sake of color:

1) In creating Form II, you might take a look at the Spanish fencing style listed in GURPS Martial Arts. It's very minimalist and efficient, rather than flashy and swashbuckling, which would seem to mimic that lightsaber style rather well.

I used the Transitional French School for Form II. I'll look over the Spanish one and see what changes would be good to make.

2) ...

3) ...

4) ...

5) ...

6) ...

All really good ideas! I think I'll actually implement all of them. Thanks!

I look forward to seeing what other ideas you have.

[Maz]

Just a small comment. For Form II you should probably note it as Force Rapier and not just simply Rapier. And also stat up a Force Rapier as compared to a Force Sword.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Maz

Just a small comment. For Form II you should probably note it as Force Rapier and not just simply Rapier. And also stat up a Force Rapier as compared to a Force Sword.

Makashi fighters still use the same kind of lightsaber (sometimes with a curved hilt to help wield it better for thrusting), except in a fencing manner, so I'm not sure if building a new type of lightsaber is necessary.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Makashi fighters still use the same kind of lightsaber (sometimes with a curved hilt to help wield it better for thrusting), except in a fencing manner, so I'm not sure if building a new type of lightsaber is necessary.

But Rapiers are fencing weapon, Force swords are not.
A fencing weapon is per definition better than a none-fencing weapon as it can parry better (lower multiple parry penalty and better retreating parry bonus).

Usually the drawback of a fencing weapon is that it's lighter and so more easily breaks and does less damage.


So why would anyone not use the Rapier skill rather than the normal Force Sword skill, if there is no drawbacks, only bonuses?

[edit] Martial Arts p.215 under Force Swords, suggest a Force Sabre as an alternative to the Force sword.

It says that a force sword is the equivalent of a Katana and is used as such.
A Force Sabre would be the fencing version of a Force Sword.

A Force sabre would do 7d(5) burn, have reach 1, weight 1 lb and have a parry of 0F. It would only be used one-handed and cost $6,000.

It would use a New skill called Force Sabre (DX/A) instead of the Force Sword skill. It would default to Force Sword skill -3 or other fencing weapon skills -3.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Maz

But Rapiers are fencing weapon, Force swords are not.
A fencing weapon is per definition better than a none-fencing weapon as it can parry better (lower multiple parry penalty and better retreating parry bonus).

Shortswords aren't fencing weapons, but the example given for Weapon Adaptation in Martial Arts says that using it with the Smallsword skill lets the user use the fencing qualities of the smallsword, which is why Makashi fighters can take the Weapon Adaptation (Force Sword to Rapier) perk.

Usually the drawback of a fencing weapon is that it's lighter and so more easily breaks and does less damage.

This doesn't seem to be much of a concern for a superscience weapon with a blade made of energy to me.

So why would anyone not use the Rapier skill rather than the normal Force Sword skill, if there is no drawbacks, only bonuses?

Why would anyone use a lightsaber when they can just choke their enemy with the Force from a distance? =P

This is a good point and I'll have to take it into account while working on the Force and it's application in lightsaber combat. Supposedly, Makashi couldn't stand up to the aggressive strength of later forms, such as Djem So. I have no idea how to incorporate this at the moment, but I've only just begun working on the Force.

[Rocket Man]

Interesting discussion. Here's a few thoughts off the top of my head for how to simulate the limitations of Form II:

1) Like any fencing style, Form II depends on movement for its effectiveness. Martial Arts notes some situations where fencers wouldn't get the full +3 for a retreat-and-parry. Make sure to enforce this.

2) One reason Jedi stopped learning Makashi was because they were facing fewer opponents with lightsabers and more with blasters. The style isn't optimized to handle ranged weapons. Perhaps Makashi users could take a -2 or worse on Precognitive Parry? (No, the manuever isn't part of Form II, but I know a PC would find a way to pick it up). In the days when the Sith were more common, almost everyone WOULD have used the Rapier skill.

3) Form II relies on finesse rather than power. With normal fencing weapons, as has been said, that's represented by them being light and easy to break. In lightsaber combat, perhaps Makashi could take a penalty against a Beat, an Aggressive Attack, or an All-Out Attack (strong). When Dooku and Anakin meet for the last time, part of Anakin's advantage is that he had learned Form V, which could power through Dooku's parries.

4) Enforce the encumberance limitations for a Form II fighter, as you would for any other fencer.

[Seraphim]

I haven't had much time to work on this stuff lately, but I did realize that I need to stat up the Force before I can finish these styles.

What are your thoughts on how the Force should be handled?

[Lord Azagthoth]

I used the descriptions given at Wookieepedia for seven lightsaber forms and several techniques. I'm still working on it and although I got all the books (including Martial Arts), its still difficult to convert an existing style to the rules.

Techniques
Disarming - Sun Djem
Targeted Attack (Swing/Hand) - Cho Mai
Targeted Attack (Swing/Leg) - Cho Mok
Targeted Attack (Swing/Weapon Arm) - Cho Sun
Targeted Attack (Swing/Neck) - Sai Cha
Targeted Attack (Swing/Lower Body) - Sai Tok
Targeted Attack (Thrust/Vitals) - Shiak (Sith)
Targeted Attack (Thrust/Limbs) - Shiak (Jedi)
Spinning Strike - Shun

Lightsaber Forms
Form I: Shii-Cho:
Skills: Lightsaber
Techniques: Back Strike (Lightsaber); Disarming; Targeted Attack (Lightsaber, Disarm/Weapon)
Cinematic Skills: Blind Fighting
Cinematic Techniques: Whirlwind Attack (Lightsaber)
Perks: Acrobatic Kicks; Grip Mastery (Lightsaber)
Optional Traits
Advantages: Force Pull; Combat Precognition
Disadvantages:
Skills: Double-Bladed Lightsaber; Fencing Lightsaber; Short-Bladed Lightsaber

Form II: Makashi
Skills: Lightsaber; Precognitive Parry
Techniques: Counterattack (Lightsaber); Feint (Lightsaber); Retain Weapon (Lightsaber); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber Thrust/Face); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber Thrust/ Neck); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber Thrust/Vitals); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber Swing/ Arm); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber Swing/leg)
Cinematic Skills: Blind Fighting
Cinematic Techniques:
Perks:
Optional Traits
Advantages: Perfect Balance; Combat Precognition
Disadvantages:
Skills: Fencing Lightsaber

Form III: Soresu
Skills: Lightsaber
Techniques: Evade (Acrobatics); Close Combat
Cinematic Skills: Blind Fighting
Cinematic Techniques: Timed Defense
Perks:
Optional Traits
Advantages: Combat Precognition
Disadvantages:
Skills: Double-Bladed Lightsaber; Short-Bladed Lightsaber

Form IV: Ataru
Skills: Lightsaber; Acrobatics
Techniques: Evade (Acrobatics); Jump Kick
Cinematic Skills: Blind Fighting
Cinematic Techniques:
Perks:
Optional Traits
Advantages: Force Jump; Force Move
Disadvantages:
Skills: Double-Bladed Lightsaber; Short-Bladed Lightsaber

Form V: Shien/Djem So
Skills: Lightsaber; Parry Beam Weapons; Power Blow
Techniques: Aggressive Parry; Targeted Attack (Lightsaber, Swing/ Face); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber, Swing/Neck); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber, Swing/Arm); Targeted Attack (Lightsaber, Swing/Leg)
Cinematic Skills: Blind Fighting
Cinematic Techniques: Flying Lunge (Lightsaber)
Perks:
Optional Traits:
Advantages:
Disadvantages:
Skills: Double-Bladed Lightsaber

Form VII: Juyo/VaapadSkills: Lightsaber
Techniques:
Cinematic Skills: Blind Fighting
Cinematic Techniques:
Perks:
Optional Traits:
Advantages:
Disadvantages: Berserk (Battle Rage)
Skills: Double-Bladed Lightsaber

[jspade]

I did a bit on the Force here. Bear in mind I've read almost none of the novels; this is strictly movie-influenced, and pretty much only my own interpretation thereof. (No midichlorians!)