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Old 10-27-2011, 12:31 PM   #11
Anders
 
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Default Re: Healing without Cumulative Penalty

What should the Cosmic modifier apply to? The skill? Or Magery? Or something else?
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:33 PM   #12
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Healing without Cumulative Penalty

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Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
What should the Cosmic modifier apply to? The skill? Or Magery? Or something else?
I presume this thread is about the 30 CP advantage called Healing. Not the spells.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Healing without Cumulative Penalty

*embarrassed*
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:23 PM   #14
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Diablo-likes after the first few levels (extreme noob turf) rapidly turn into type two, even for classes with no innate healing ability - potions drop SO often and you can drink them so quickly even while fighting hordes of demons that your hit point pool is effectively your real HPs plus all those "liquid HPs" stored in little bottles.
Diablo II is over 10 years old, in terms of computer game design.

Several years ago, Blizzard changed World of Warcraft to limit potion usage during combat. I unsubscribed about a year ago, so maybe they've changed it again since then, and it's possible that I misremember, but IIRC it's only possible to drink a single healing or mana potion during combat. You have to leave combat state and probably wait out a timer before you can consume another potion.

Before that change there was a 2-minute timer on potions during combat state and IIRC also out of combat, although out of combat almost anyone would regen to full HP in a few minutes anyway.

Chances are there'll be a similar "brake" mechanic on potion usage in Diablo III, so as to encourage the use of bigger potions (and make it more worthwhile to be in a party with a healer). So that instead of HP healed being linear with gold cost, gold cost actually increases much faster.

30 HP for 30 gold, or 60 HP for 100 gold, or 120 HP for 300 gold, e.g.



I'm not sure +50% is enough for this Cosmic. Maybe +100%? It's reaching inside to touch something deep in the combat balancing of fantasy-genre GURPS.

An entirely different possibility is to go with D&D4-style Healing Surges. That's a property of the recipient rather than of the healer, so you'd need to build Extra HP with a lot of Limitations, and the healer would either be a mandatory facilitator of this (so one Limitation would be Must Be Healed By a Healer), or else he'd simply make uses of Surges more efficient, e.g. so that they heal 50% more HP, somewhat like in D&D4.

The GURPS Healing advantage is a bit like that already, with the cumulative -3 usage penalty encouraging few big heals rather than many small ones (I guess that's also one reason why I object to a small +50% Cosmic; outside of combat healing would then be in 1 HP increments), the main difference being that I can't have anything on my character sheet that makes me easier to heal for others, and that the "count" is separate for each healer who might want to heal me (this also means that it's a ressource in a GURPS DF or otherwise combat-heavy fantasy genre campaig to have two healers in the party. So the tiny Cosmi changes that).
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: Healing without Cumulative Penalty

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Diablo II is over 10 years old, in terms of computer game design.

Several years ago, Blizzard changed World of Warcraft to limit potion usage during combat. I unsubscribed about a year ago, so maybe they've changed it again since then, and it's possible that I misremember, but IIRC it's only possible to drink a single healing or mana potion during combat. You have to leave combat state and probably wait out a timer before you can consume another potion.

Before that change there was a 2-minute timer on potions during combat state and IIRC also out of combat, although out of combat almost anyone would regen to full HP in a few minutes anyway.
And yet, there was absolutely no restriction on repeat healing of the same subject by Priests, Druids, or mad Engineers.

The restriction on potions was purely to stop big raiding guilds with enormous gold-farming populations from pushing ahead of smaller outfits, plowing through Blizzards content extremely fast, and then whining for months about how there was nothing to do. It also has significant impact in PVP combat.

World of Warcraft is an innately competitive game if not downright adversarial. Tabletop games are not, and GURPS is especially not. The balance is more like Diablo than like World of Warcraft.

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
Chances are there'll be a similar "brake" mechanic on potion usage in Diablo III, so as to encourage the use of bigger potions (and make it more worthwhile to be in a party with a healer). So that instead of HP healed being linear with gold cost, gold cost actually increases much faster.

30 HP for 30 gold, or 60 HP for 100 gold, or 120 HP for 300 gold, e.g.
We'll see, but I suspect what will actually be done is something on the Torchlight model, where a potion gives you a very fast heal-over-time effect instead of an instant one.

If you're taking 500 damage a second, and the 30 gold potion heals 100 damage/4 seconds, you'd have to hit the button 20 times per second to keep up. Most keyboards don't cycle that fast, and you really should be using your mouse for something more useful, like killing the monsters that are doing 500 dps to you.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Healing without Cumulative Penalty

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
I'm not sure +50% is enough for this Cosmic. Maybe +100%? It's reaching inside to touch something deep in the combat balancing of fantasy-genre GURPS.
If +50% strikes you as too low, then, as a GM, for your games, make it +100% or whatever number strikes you as "fair".

For GURPS, you know, the generic game, applying campaign- and genre- specific answers to the general case is kinda contrary to the point.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: Healing without Cumulative Penalty

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Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty View Post
... By way of comparison, ...
The other thing to compare it to is Cosmic, No Die Roll Required, +100% (which you used in Divine Favor, p. 11).

With NDRR you get IQ/3 automatically successful uses per day (per patient) for +100%.

With no cumulative penalties, you still have to succeed on a success roll, but you can keep trying for as long as you want, which pretty much guarantees success within one or two attempts, as many times per day as you want, for +50%.

Except for occasionally taking an extra turn or two during combat, No cumulative penalties for +50% seems a better deal than NDRR for +100% (though obviously NDRR is more suited for divine powers).
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
You don't.

You're not supposed to.
I don´t think, that it´s important how other systems or games actually do that or not.

But i think, that GURPS should be able to simulate either version!

It cannot be that the system forbits things that *some* game allows.

Universal and Generic, you know :)
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:29 PM   #19
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Healing without Cumulative Penalty

It gets even more fun if you guys' Cosmic +50% is combined with 1 level of Reduced FP cost +20%, for a total cost of the Healing advantage of 51 CP, the healer character can heal the party members for 2 HP a Round indefinitely. Or rather, an average of 1.5 to 1.8 HP per Round, since he'll occasionally fail the ability usage roll even with good IQ + Talent (or IQ+Reliable). But still, it means the party can top up HP completely between fights, in no more than a minute or two, even after serious injuries.

It completely breaks the "Healing is best done in big chunks" concept of GURPS (and Hero System).
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:31 PM   #20
Peter Knutsen
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I don´t think, that it´s important how other systems or games actually do that or not.
I'm afraid you're extremely wrong here.

GURPS 1st edition wasn't created in a vacuum. I can't speak for 4th Edition, but Steve Jackson was extremely inspired by other people's designs when he made GURPS 1st Edition.
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