Priests, clerics and Deity

[Kieddicus]

My odd-ball way of running priest.

There are no more living gods in my version of Cidri though no one knows this because miracles still happen and religious symbols still work. What is actually happening is priest are manifesting the miracles using magic generated from their followers (they of course don't know this, nor would they ever believe you if you told they). The priest also doesn't loss stamina since their believers are acting like a giant battery.

This works because magic on Cidri is psychic and runs off of belief.

[Jpot]

I'd like to hear thoughts on the following Cleric stuff:

I think a lot of people here resort to "hey it's just magic" and end up dismissing a myriad of great storylines, character play, and interesting situations.

The drama of having a pantheon or pantheons of gods active in your TFT world, how it affects the profession of Cleric and those they interact with in that world, is profound.

Watch the Dungeon Craft Youtube channel on Clerics.

I admit, I grew up playing BECMI/Mentzer D&D, then later AD& D, in the mid-80's as a young kid. I had heard of GURPS in catalogs but never came across TFT as it was already If I had, I'd have loved it. Because I loved Homer's epics and read The Mighty Thor comic, I had an acute interest in the various myths from the Greeks, Norsemen and elsewhere. Therefore I loved Deities & Demi-Gods (later Legends & Lore) as it put a mathematical number on the strengths and powers of the personages I knew so well. (It's also how I found Fafhrd & The Grey Mouser.:) Manual of the Planes was also a volume from that game I read over and over.

Anyway, I digress. I came across this build-out for a TFT Cleric at the link below. Maybe it's author hangs out here, and it's already been posted. If not, I don't have his name but wanted to give him credit. Obviously, Cleric profession of a sort under TFT rules requires a bit more background work from the GM. I don't prefer to set my games in a "Cidri".
https://sites.google.com/site/fantas...lerical-powers


REQ: Priest skill (2) and holy symbol.

Priests must chose to be Heroic or Wizards.

Heroic priests get skills and divine magic at normal prices and Magic spells as 3x cost.

Wizard Priests get Divine and Magic spells at normal cost and skills at 2x cost.

Divine Spells

Detect Evil IQ9 1 ST

Detects the presence of Evil creatures within 2 megahexes of the casters megahex. Requires contact with holy symbol.

Heal IQ9 1 ST+2/1 ST

Removes damage (not FAT) from the body of the touched subject, exchanging 1 wound for each 2 ST expended. Requires use of holy symbol.

Repel Evil IQ10 3 ST + 1 ST/turn

As the MegaHex Avert wizard spell, but only effects evil creatures. Requires holy symbol.

Bless IQ11 3 ST + 1 ST/turn

Acts as a Luck spell, +1 to all rolls. Target must be touched to activate and remain in line of sight of the caster. Requires holy symbol.

Greater Heal IQ12 1 ST + 1/1 ST

As the Heal spell but replaces wounds (not FAT) for STR at a 1:1 cost. Requires Holy Symbol AND Theology skill.

Resist Evil IQ13 2 ST + 1 ST/turn

As Stone Flesh spell but only works against evil

Destroy Evil IQ14 All ST?

As Death Spell, IQ 16, but only works against evil creatures. Requires holy symbol and Theology skill.

Smite Evil IQ15 2 ST +1 ST/turn

Increases the damage done by the target against evil creatures by +2.

Exorcism IQ16 50 ST

Will remove and maybe destroy an evil being from the inhabited body. The target must be pinned and helpless to resist. Requires holy symbol and Theology skill and 1 hour.

Holy Fire IQ17 4 ST

As a 7 Hex Fire spell, doing double damage vs evil.

Revival IQ18 50 ST

As wizard spell, requires Theology skill

Restoration IQ19 10 ST

Heals all of the targets wounds (not FAT) completely. Requires Theology skill.

Resurrection IQ20 50 ST

As Revival spell but can bring back a corpse upto a week old. Requires Theology skill.

A priests Holy Symbol has the following innate enchantments, counting as one enchantment.

Detect Evil by touch, 1 ST

Detect Evil magical casting with 2 mega hexes

Counts as a Mace vs evil creatures, doing +1 damage. Must know how to use a Mace.

Can SLOW all evil creatures within a single adjacent megahex on a successful IQ roll. A critical roll will count as a STOP. Lasts one round only, must be re-tried each round, 1 ST per attempt. More powerful evil may resist this effect.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Jpot

I'd like to hear thoughts on the following Cleric stuff:

I like the introduction of religion. However, I would advise that a diversity of religious belief is going to make a more interesting game world than a Good/Evil binary dominated by a few competing religions.

The Good/Evil binary itself is not satisfactory, since it lacks any subtlety. Consider the possibility that most "evil" people probably consider their actions noble and working toward "good". So, I'm not really interested in spells like Detect Evil or "Destroy Evil.

I also find the Hero/Wizard binary arbitrary and decidedly not fun.

[hcobb]

Detect Evil: Just Detect Life tuned to non-humans. What defines the Pale of humanity depends on the religion.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Detect Evil: Just Detect Life tuned to non-humans. What defines the Pale of humanity depends on the religion.

Are you saying unicorns and butterflies are evil?

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Are you saying unicorns and butterflies are evil?

And Barney the purple dinosaur.

[hcobb]

Intelligent critters so no hobgoblins or orcs.

[Jpot]

In this world soaked in post-modernist cynicism, it's easy to paint everything grey.

Noble intentions can be used to justify evil actions. But let's not take a high horse. Many excellent fantasy stories got along with various deities and cults from REH and Fritz Leiber to Moorcock. These stories were always "questionably moral" at best. In this type of world, a morally upright Cleric or Paladin character can offer a juxtaposition.

I'm just of the mind that...a cleric-built character offers unique role-playing quandries and scenarios that can often drive a plot. Clerical bad-guys may offer unique challenges and motivations.

Real World Example: It is often said of the New Testament that where ever Paul went, he caused a riot, a ruckus, or conversions. Sometimes all three. Acts 16:22-24 he and Silas were beaten, stoned and thrown in the stocks. The Jews in Thessalonica said that Paul and his companions had "turned the world upside down" (Acts 17:6) He also reasoned with other religions and philosophers in Athens (Acts 17:17-18) In 2 Corinthians 11:16-33 he describes the magnitude of his hardships because of his evangelizing, including lashings, shipwrecks, stonings and even details a narrow rescue and escape. During these adventures he laid on hands, healed the sick and cast out demons, and began churches. Finally he is brought before governors and kings to defend his faith (Acts 22,23,24). He also had a divine fate decreed by Christ (Acts 9:15-16), after persecuting the early Church and murdering Christians before his conversion (Acts 7,9)

Anyway, the point of that is, with a good story the character can create drama and has ample chances to roleplay and influence others. Simply by following their convictions or mandates.

[timm meyers]

The generic insertion of God(s) just adds another layer to the fantasy setting and thus more choice and specialization to PC builds. ie; the priest who fights undead is great in the graveyard but contributes much less in all other "normal" scenarios. Just like the power thief is great at sneaking and burglary but nigh worthless in combating orcs.

I think the greatest cleric type PC is one who roleplays the heck out of their religion. Adheres fanatically to their own well-defined beliefs and tenants. A true believer like this will require the GM and other players to decide at some point whether the God is real or not. A good player will certainly convince the GM (true god of the adventure universe) to reward or punish with possible unique abilities, spells, interventions.

[Jpot]

Originally Posted by timm meyers

The generic insertion of God(s) just adds another layer to the fantasy setting and thus more choice and specialization to PC builds. ie; the priest who fights undead is great in the graveyard but contributes much less in all other "normal" scenarios. Just like the power thief is great at sneaking and burglary but nigh worthless in combating orcs.

I think the greatest cleric type PC is one who roleplays the heck out of their religion. Adheres fanatically to their own well-defined beliefs and tenants. A true believer like this will require the GM and other players to decide at some point whether the God is real or not. A good player will certainly convince the GM (true god of the adventure universe) to reward or punish with possible unique abilities, spells, interventions.

Yes what he said.

About where they're useful -from what I've heard 5e makes Clerics the most powerful class. Even in the days of B/X the Cleric was useful in normal combat, although yes, very useful against the undead. The MorgansFort supplement for HOW introduces turning the undead into a TFT-based rules set. I don't have it yet though to see how the author decided to do it.