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Old 04-30-2019, 01:24 AM   #41
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
If you like both, you could call the Legacy edition Sprinting and the OTFT version Running and allow both. This would make for very fast light armor fencer type characters.

Elf (MA 12) with Sprinting (+2 MA in Leather/Cloth armor), Running (+2 MA), wearing Leather armor (total MA 16).
This seems like a workable approach; high MA is nice, but generally not as important as DX or ST, so the consequences of letting characters stack it to ridiculous levels are relatively small.

I also like the idea of having combat actions cost fatigue. One possible way of implementing this (which may or may not be heavily inspired by Skyrim's endurance/fatigue mechanic, and also may or may not be posted in the wrong thread, but meh):
  • Armor/shield/parry fully absorbs a blow worth 3+ points damage = 1 point fatigue
  • Making a 2nd melee attack in a turn = 1 point fatigue
  • Moving full MA = 1 point fatigue.

That's simple enough that even fighters should be able to keep track of it, and heavily armored figures would end up taking a lot more fatigue, as their armor soaks up lots of damage, and as they're frequently forced to move their full MA 6 (or 8 with old Running) to keep up with the action.
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:51 AM   #42
KevinJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
I think you may have missed the actual meaning of that quote. which was not a suggestion that running around in armor is easy.
The point of my comment is that sprinting to a foxhole with 60+lb of gear is not easier than running around in 60lb of armor. If you train to sprint/run with a 60lb load then only SCA/Ren Fair armor is going to limit that ability to sprint/run. Well made and properly worn armor does not limit your movement the way most people think, you just can't put it down to take a break.
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:42 AM   #43
FireHorse
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
The point of my comment is that sprinting to a foxhole with 60+lb of gear is not easier than running around in 60lb of armor.
Yes, that's right — but I did not suggest that it was easier.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:06 PM   #44
KevinJ
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
Yes, that's right — but I did not suggest that it was easier.
Someone else did.

So, do you , the GOD of your game, go with one version, the other version or use both? Do you allow any one character to take both or do they have to choose one or the other? While very fast characters aren't game breaking in tactical combat, a single very fast character might be seem as having an unfair advantage by a player who chose not to be a very fast character.
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:34 AM   #45
JustAnotherJarhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

I like the idea of two different skills sets in running, an olympic sprinter trains very differently than a marathoner, but I don't think it's important enough on game play to make any changes.

But, I'm am wondering, can you really "sprint" in full plate armor, with shield n sword while wearing a full backpack and a wineskin?

I don't think anyone is running anywhere in metal armor, at least not for very long, it's going to be a lesson in conservation of energy to make it through the day.
If a walk is MA 3 or less, then you are "running" in your plate armor at MA 6, you just aren't sprinting like your unarmored team mates at MA 10.

I think running talent RAW in current Legacy is just fine, and to be fair, even allowing elves the faster MA while in 16 lbs of boiled leather armor is probably a stretch, it's stiff, it has weight, it moderately protects.

Even giving Cloth armor the same MA as an unarmored man, is very generous considering it's only 2 lbs lighter than leather, and nearly as stiff.

If an unarmored and unencumbered character can achieve an MA of 10 on a dead sprint (no one says for how long he can sustain that rate), then there is no realistic way an armored character can keep up, even with training.

I think the 6 MA for metal armors is probably fair, and taking note that Steve and crew didn't extend the Eleven running affinity to include metal armors says a lot.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:02 PM   #46
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherJarhead View Post
I like the idea of two different skills sets in running, an olympic sprinter trains very differently than a marathoner, but I don't think it's important enough on game play to make any changes.

But, I'm am wondering, can you really "sprint" in full plate armor, with shield n sword while wearing a full backpack and a wineskin?

I don't think anyone is running anywhere in metal armor, at least not for very long, it's going to be a lesson in conservation of energy to make it through the day.
If a walk is MA 3 or less, then you are "running" in your plate armor at MA 6, you just aren't sprinting like your unarmored team mates at MA 10.

I think running talent RAW in current Legacy is just fine, and to be fair, even allowing elves the faster MA while in 16 lbs of boiled leather armor is probably a stretch, it's stiff, it has weight, it moderately protects.

Even giving Cloth armor the same MA as an unarmored man, is very generous considering it's only 2 lbs lighter than leather, and nearly as stiff.

If an unarmored and unencumbered character can achieve an MA of 10 on a dead sprint (no one says for how long he can sustain that rate), then there is no realistic way an armored character can keep up, even with training.

I think the 6 MA for metal armors is probably fair, and taking note that Steve and crew didn't extend the Eleven running affinity to include metal armors says a lot.
It's been a while since I read the posts in this thread, but in response to what you wrote above, I think of combat MA as a reflection of how well someone can maneuver and respond in combat from a stop (or possibly from having just run in another direction the previous turn). I don't think of it as running full speed the full turn, because it also allows arbitrary direction changes, and also because the scale is so slow in real-world terms (10 hexes is 40 feet, which means 8 feet per second, which is not running).

So can you "sprint" in plate? Depends on what you mean by sprint. If "sprint" means run as fast as you can, which is faster than your ability to arbitrarily maneuver in any direction during combat, then I would say yes.

That is, I like house rules (and GURPS rules) where if you spend a turn moving full MA in one direction, then the next turn you can say you are running or sprinting in that same general direction, and if so, you can move more like the actual running speed of people - i.e rather higher than your combat MA (minus encumbrance effects, terrain, etc). And so can other creatures...
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:48 PM   #47
JustAnotherJarhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

OK, so... you are warming up to a full on sprint, but it takes a dedicated round of building full MA, whatever that "sprint" MA ends up being? 2X MA?

on that note, if moving 8 ft. per second isn't running, then what is "running" in TFT?

The only memory I have from Original TFT, is the Centaur, where one figure is used specifically for "underground" type movement, and the other, twice (2X) the former listed MA is used outdoors.

Any clarity on this?
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:27 PM   #48
TippetsTX
 
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Location: North Texas
Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

In my games, I'm playtesting a variant MA approach to address some of these issues (I'll post a separate thread in the house rules forum soon).

Basically, there will be three modes of movement for characters and creatures... Walk, Hustle and Run. The 'walk' MA will become the new baseline MA.

Walk = the distance the figure can move and still attack (i.e. 1/2 current base MA score)
Hustle = 2x Walk MA
Run = 4x Walk MA

So instead of MA 10 for a human, the new base MA is 5. Modifications to MA from armor, encumbrance, etc. will be adjusted to fit this paradigm (half what they are now).
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Last edited by TippetsTX; 08-12-2019 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:16 PM   #49
JustAnotherJarhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

I like that proposal a lot.
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