04-12-2017, 07:39 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Plugerville
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Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
The character in question has both sharp teeth and sharp claws and is expecting to do some 'knife hunting' in the near future.
Relevant stats are: DX 13, ST 11, Lifting ST+3, Arm ST+1, Per 14, Brawling 15, Stealth 17, Survival 14, DR1(tough skin), DR1(worn leather, may or may not be present), Move 6, Dodge 9 (no grappling skills, this is supposed to be an archer/sniper but a bow is not available for this activity) Relevant rules I have identified: In the basic set under Grapling it says you can grapple with one or more arms in one attack. In MA it says you can hold on with a bite attack, turning it into a grapple.(counting as one-handed if the target is not smaller than you) This suggests that it should be reasonable to bite and hold on with the hands in one attack. If the prey turns out to be something dangerous like a wild boar(ST15, Combat Reflexes, Dodge 10, SM+1), I was thinking a good approach would be: Sneak to within 3 yards, Evaluate x2, all-out-attack Determined, Deceptive attack -3 (15+1(SM)+2(evaluate)+4(Determined)-6(DA) = 16) doing 1d-1 cutting And the target would have a break-free roll of 15 vs 22 (11+3(lift)+1(Arm)+5(two hands)+2(extra hand/mouth)) The following round I would probably release with the mouth to make a bite attack on the neck (AOA-determined again for a target number of 15), then worry the target doing 1d-1 x2(cutting to neck) each round. (I do not think it can gore with it's tusks while I have a hold on the torso or neck, but I am not 100% certain of this) If, on the other hand, I cannot grab hold with arms with the same attack as the bite/grapple, I would need to do AOA-double bite-grapple/arm-grapple. Assuming I am not using the 'add or remove one or more hands at the beginning of your turn' free action(I do not want to wait and risk a break-free at 15vs14), would I get any bonuses to adding hands to an existing grapple? If I have missed any relevant rules or discussions, please point me towards them. Note: grapple attack with 3 'hands' would be at DX+2 so both brawling and grapple would have effective skills of 15, so rolling at the lesser of the two would not change any of the above. Thanks. (I have access to MA:TG but we are not using it this game) |
04-12-2017, 07:57 AM | #2 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
A two-handed grapple is one attack. A bite is a second one. If you're doing both at the same target, it would seem Dual-Weapon Attack would be a great fit here.
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04-12-2017, 08:17 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Plugerville
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
Quote:
Hopefully I can manage to be both down-wind and behind the target to set up the attack.(I believe this removes the chance to defend which in turn removes the need for the evaluate) Would a successful bite/grapple lend any assistance to the two armed grapple? Last edited by Terwin; 04-12-2017 at 09:30 AM. |
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04-13-2017, 11:04 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Plugerville
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
Quote:
Doing the grab first does not work well in this case, mostly because the character does not have the skill levels to either target the neck or do deceptive attacks without bringing the effective skill below 16.(the grapple will need a 2 second evaluate just to get up to an effective skill of 16, even with AOA-Determined to counter the untrained DWA penalty) |
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04-14-2017, 07:32 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Plugerville
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
Quote:
Then again, if the target has an unmodified dodge of 10, even with a -1 for being grappled, it may be better to just worry on the torso for 1d-1(cutting) every turn. Even against DR1, that is still an average of 2 2/3 damage per turn with no attack roll.(worrying the neck is 3 1/3 damage/turn, faster but not a lot faster) Of course there is also the concern of a counter-attack from the boar. If the neck is not grappled, it may well be able to bite/gore and that would be doing a lot more damage than worrying, even with a -4 to the attack roll. With the neck grappled there is still the kick to worry about, but with the extra -2 to attack and the -1 damage for being a quadruped, odds of a hit are low and the damage will be less than the worry(1d cr vs 2DR attacking around 6-8 as opposed to 1d-1 cutting vs 1 DR without an attack roll) |
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04-15-2017, 01:11 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
Quote:
*Grappling using a bite might not benefit from Trained ST from sources other than Brawling, unless you have a Perk to let you use, say, Wrestling for bite-based grapples**. Also, while Technical Grappling gives the bite the same ST as using both arms, it might be more appropriate to use relative SM like in Martial Arts - having the same SM or being smaller than your target would count as a one-handed grapple, for 0.5xST, which combines with ST 10 for ST 11. If the target is smaller than you, you use 1xST, for ST 14, as above. **Personally, I simply allow for a single Perk per skill, called Beastly Combat, that lets the character use non-standard bits - teeth, claws, tails, etc - with unarmed skills that don't usually allow such (like Karate).
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04-15-2017, 08:38 PM | #7 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
If you do this, you should use the relative SM rules on p. 9.
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04-16-2017, 09:13 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
Quote:
Against smaller creatures, its grapples are still two-handed, but now it gets the bonuses to TST and DX. An SM -2 target, for example, has to contend with TST 15** and DX 13 (for Wrestling 15). *ST is halved to 5, then the +2 Training bonus boosts it to 7. **I know GURPS is usually round down, but I just can't bring myself to round 14.95 down to 14.
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04-17-2017, 06:49 AM | #9 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
The TG one only, because a one-handed grapple is represented by low control points (ST is halved for only using one hand; you can alternatively just roll regular damage and halve it, which will be faster at the table).
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04-17-2017, 07:53 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?
Just to make certain we're on the same page here, I'm specifically referring to the handling of bites. TG currently has bites roughly equivalent to two handed grapples (generating as many CP as damage rolled, meaning using full ST, albeit if untrained you have a -1 to damage relative to a two-handed grab) regardless of relative size. My suggestion was that, against foes who are the same size as you or larger, you'd basically use half the rolled damage to determine CP, functionally making such bites into one-handed grapples.
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