Demon names.

[naraht]

Just wondering, does saying the name of a Demon or Demon Prince in Angelic (say, while reporting to ones superior) count as speaking Demonic (and thus getting dissonance)? What about places?

[johndallman]

No, it doesn't. For a parallel example, I know and can pronounce the names of some Indian people and places, but I can't speak or read any of the Indian languages they originate in.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by johndallman

No, it doesn't. For a parallel example, I know and can pronounce the names of some Indian people and places, but I can't speak or read any of the Indian languages they originate in.

If you know what they mean in said languages, aren't you kind of though?
Los Angeles means the angels. Bam! I spoke Spanish.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

If you know what they mean in said languages, aren't you kind of though?
Los Angeles means the angels. Bam! I spoke Spanish.

There's a difference between knowing the meaning of a foreign word and knowing the usage of a foreign word. (For example, you can probably figure out that "tabernac" is French for "tabernacle" - but do you know why you shouldn't say the word outside of a church if you're in Québec?) I see a similar distinction between an angel saying a demon's name and an angel speaking Demonic.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by robkelk

There's a difference between knowing the meaning of a foreign word and knowing the usage of a foreign word. (For example, you can probably figure out that "tabernac" is French for "tabernacle" - but do you know why you shouldn't say the word outside of a church if you're in Québec?) I see a similar distinction between an angel saying a demon's name and an angel speaking Demonic.

That would fall under cultural familiarity more than language fluency. But I get your point.

[alexondria]

I look at the reason it's dissonant. Which if I remember correctly has to do with it being lies. So saying the demons name is that demons name wouldn't be a lie, even if the demon is calling himself a bastion of kindness when in reality he's the expert torturer. In my mind you aren't saying that he is a bastion of kindness, but this is what he calls himself. I'd even allow Angel's to say large chunks of demonic as long as it was as direct a quote as they could remember. Something like, "Well I don't know all the nuances of the language, but what he said was blah blah blah can you help add anything?" or "he said to tell you blah blah blah"

Of course I'm also the one that adds "as far as I know" to everything said in Angelic to keep PCs from for example solving a murder by going down the list of suspects and declaring each of them guilty in Angelic and just waiting to see which one they can actually say.

[tHEhERETIC]

Originally Posted by naraht

Just wondering, does saying the name of a Demon or Demon Prince in Angelic (say, while reporting to ones superior) count as speaking Demonic (and thus getting dissonance)? What about places?

Is there a particular page where this is mentioned? I'd like to get in on this discussion, but only after I know what I'm talking about. IOW I don't remember a dissonance condition attached to angels speaking Demon, only that they didn't speak it.

[William]

A proper name in another language is a word in your own language. You get Dissonance if you lie in Helltongue (after getting one for learning the language, due to the broken mindset required); if a demon tells you his name is Ahuizotl the Tail-Handed, even if it has neither a tail nor hands, then it's not a lie to say "Morning, Ahuizotl."

In Angelic, when you say, "Hello, (series of tones involving the phrase Ahuizotl)," that's not saying anything in Helltongue if you don't know it. If you do know Helltongue somehow, then when you say "Hello, Ahuizotl the Tail-Handed," you could state the epithet in Angelic or as a Helltongue phrase imported into Angelic as a proper name, and it should be clear that it's a proper name, possibly one you don't find very descriptive. You could as easily refer to His Imperial Majesty Joshua Norton I, Emperor of these United States and Protector of Mexico, without considering the good old fellow to be anything of the sort except Joshua Norton, because they're titles.

Now, extremely cautious Seraphim can have trouble with nicknames, titles, and polite elisions. It's a good way to mark a newbie Seraph in conversation. Angelic is able to distinguish between these things without dissonance.

I suppose some linguistic programmer demon with ambitions could have a long-term plot to corrupt Angelic by constructing numerous inaccurate proper nouns and making them important enough on Earth and in the War to force their importation into Angelic. But the very process seems self-correcting, as either names eventually match things, the meaning of the name changes to match the thing, or things change to match names, usually. Could be a literary sort of challenge!

[Flyndaran]

Couldn't angels just speak such untrue names and phrases in human languages?
Many people will throw in untranslatable things or concepts with emotional connection to the other language/culture into normal conversation without trouble. Even though it sounds funny to those knowing only one of the languages spoken.

Hind, Hindi, Hindi, Hindi...quietly* "I really love mashed potatoes"... Hindi, Hindi.