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Old 09-23-2018, 11:53 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Misc. Spell questions

All page references to the recent Wizard Spell Reference Booklet.pdf unless noted.

Blur(p1) Is the wizard hindered in casting spells on himself under his own Blur spell, or one cast by an allied wizard on him?
Suggestion: A wizard suffers no DX penalties for vision for casting spells on himself or anyone he is holding onto.

Drop Weapon(p1) What is the effect on two-handed weapons?
Suggestion: Any one item held (not worn) by the target, with no mention of hands.

Magic Fist(p1) Given that the maximum possible MF is 3dice minus 12 you need to roll 18 in order to trip, correct?
Suggestion: If any one of the damage dice rolls a six before adjustments

Slow Movement(p1) Round up or down?
Suggestion: up

Staff(p1) "make any piece of wood" With no limitations to type or size? Mr. Treant, you seem to be holding yourself off the ground... And is there any range adjustment for casting this spell against a quarterstaff in somebody else's hands three megahexes away?
Suggestion: Any piece of wood held up in the wizard's hands.

Aid(p1) What happens to borrowed ST used to cast a spell after Aid wears off?
Suggestion: Spell casting and damage suffered is marked against ST gained from an Aid spell first.

Avert(p1) What are the effects of a wizard Averting himself, other than immunity to hostile Averts?
Suggestion: No effect.

Reveal Magic(p2) Any range limits? What if the wizard is looking through a telescope at the moon?
Suggestion: five megahexes, within line of sight.

Control Animal(p2) Any additional cost to control a multi-hex animal like a T-Rex?
Suggestion: Only if its brain is bigger than one hex.

Sleep(p3) Do hits from fire count? What about hits that don't penetrate armor?
Suggestion: Any damage.

Mage Sight(p4) Are the subjects merely seen, or are all visual DX adjustments negated?
Suggestion: Seen as if the wizard had normal eyesight and the effect was not present.

Slippery Floor(p4) Can only be cast on Megahex aligned boundaries?

Stone Flesh(p5) Everybody within line of sight knows how much actual damage each attack does to any target or is there an implied visual effect of Stone Flesh absorbing damage?

Stop(p5) prevents Teleport?
Suggestion: No.

Is Lightning(p5) the only attack that can destroy created walls? You can't wack it with your staff? Do the five hits have to be delivered in a single blast or can you chip away?
Suggestion: Only missile spells.

Wizard casts Remove Thrown Spell(p5) on himself (at no range adjustment) to negate the Megahex Avert he's suffering under and everybody else is also freed? Also the effect of the Sleep spell is instant so Remove Thrown Spell can't wake anybody up, right?
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Last edited by hcobb; 09-23-2018 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Casting Suggestion.
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:33 PM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Many of these are really good and/or interesting questions that point to undefined parts of TFT - cool!

I'll answer the ones I think have well-established answers:

Drop weapon causes a weapon or shield to drop, regardless of how many hands are holding it.

Magic fist max damage is 3d-6, not 3d-12, so no.

When an Aid (ST) spell wears off, the subject loses that ST. Fatigue used during the 2 turns while the Aid spell was in effect can be counted against the Aid spell, and the fatigue vanishes with the Aid spell. The original Advanced Wizard calls this out as the main way wizards can cast spells with huge ST costs. But Aid spells do not "heal fatigue" on a wizard who already had fatigue before the Aid spell. And (less clearly spelled out, so IMO) it shouldn't let you heal wounds either, even if they were suffered during the Aid spell.

I'm not sure where you get the idea of casting Avert on yourself and that making you immune to hostile Averts. I would say that Avert can't be cast on yourself, though I don't mind your idea as a clever trick.

Reveal Magic has a range of 5 Megahexes in original Advanced Wizard.

Control Animal - no limits mentioned except the IQ saving roll.

In Advanced Wizard, sleepers awake when hit (regardless of damage) or naturally. I'd say fire counts as a hit, but it's a good question.

Mage Sight - what you suggested.

Slippery Floor is cast on the center hex of the affected area, which can be any hex - the rules do say this.

Knowing how much damage people take is up to the players. In a competitive game, you tell your opponent when they hit you and Stone Flesh prevents you from taking damage. In a GM'd game, the GM would rule how clear it is what is happening, and generally would not tell players exactly how much damage everyone is actually taking, nor what the opponents' stats are.

Stop doesn't prevent Teleport - it just lowers MA to zero.

Lightning is the only damage that's especially effective against a magically created Wall. Whether damage has to be in one blast or not was never specified.

The Remove Thrown Spell question is interesting and could have various answers. I tend to think it just removes the effect from one person at a time, but I think it's good to have it able to wake someone asleep from a Sleep spell.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:27 PM   #3
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I'm not sure where you get the idea of casting Avert on yourself and that making you immune to hostile Averts. I would say that Avert can't be cast on yourself, though I don't mind your idea as a clever trick.
Are all Thrown Spells under the unstackable limitation? How about Aid? What happens if you're under two hostile Averts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizards rulebook p13
Only one Blur, one Dazzle, one Stone Flesh, one Shock Shield, etc., can be cast on any given figure at a time. These spells are not cumulative.
And what happens when a wizard casts a range zero Megahex Avert to get all the people in his face to just back off?

---- Adding:

My suggestion is to generalize Add not multiply to: The continuing effect (other than damage) of any spell is replaced when a figure comes under the effect of a second casting of exactly the same type of spell with the following exceptions and modifications:

Blur, Dazzle, Shadow, Invisibility and all other vision impairments operate independently, but only the worst modifier applies.

Any number of Slow Movement and Speed Movement can be cast on the same figure add the total duration of each type together and while a figure is under the effect of both types their movement is normal until one of the effects wears off.

Any number of Aid spells can take effect on the same figure at the same time, but only the highest current level of each of Clumsiness and Confusion applies.

One multi-hex non-living creation such as shadow, fire or wall can cut through another. Shadow hides whatever is inside it while wall puts out fire. (Only matters if the wall is itself destroyed later.)

Any number of Rope spells operate independently against a figure.

Stone Flesh and Iron Flesh each cancel the previous spell out on the same figure.
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Last edited by hcobb; 09-23-2018 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:27 PM   #4
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Are all Thrown Spells under the unstackable limitation? How about Aid? What happens if you're under two hostile Averts?
It depends on the nature of the spell, I think, not that it's a Thrown spell.

That is, I don't think it's necessarily that you (and/or others) can't cast the same spell on someone more than once - the issue is that some spells have an effect which, once achieved, isn't really changed by having it cast more than once. But it would give the subject two sources for that effect. It seems to me there's an understandable logical principle which can be applied to most spells. e.g.:

If you're blurred, another blur spell doesn't make the effect of being blurred any greater.

If you're already dazzled, more dazzle doesn't increase what being dazzled means.

If you already have stone flesh, another stone flesh doesn't create a new Uber Stone Flesh effect - you just have another thing causing you to have normal stone flesh.

Shock Shield might logically be thought to be something you could stack, so it's nice that's called out. It would of course be super-deadly. Though, you can have multiple people and cast shock shield on each of them and have them jump in the same HTH combat hex - but they'll shock each other too.

However I'm confident that Aid is intended to be fully stackable (although Aid can be extremely powerful once players think about it enough).

Two hostile Avert spells is an interesting question which I think got a Q&A back in the day, the upshot of which was the subject needs to do its best to try to fulfill the requirements of all Avert spells, and it can't move closer to any of the casters who have an Avert on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
And what happens when a wizard casts a range zero Megahex Avert to get all the people in his face to just back off?
Yes. It's like you cast Avert on each of them, but just have one spell to maintain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
My suggestion is to generalize Add not multiply to: The continuing effect (other than damage) of any spell is replaced when a figure comes under the effect of a second casting of exactly the same type of spell with the following exceptions and modifications:

Blur, Dazzle, Shadow, Invisibility and all other vision impairments operate independently, but only the worst modifier applies.

Any number of Slow Movement and Speed Movement can be cast on the same figure add the total duration of each type together and while a figure is under the effect of both types their movement is normal until one of the effects wears off.

Any number of Aid spells can take effect on the same figure at the same time, but only the highest current level of each of Clumsiness and Confusion applies.

One multi-hex non-living creation such as shadow, fire or wall can cut through another. Shadow hides whatever is inside it while wall puts out fire. (Only matters if the wall is itself destroyed later.)

Any number of Rope spells operate independently against a figure.

Stone Flesh and Iron Flesh each cancel the previous spell out on the same figure.
That mostly sounds exactly as intended, except:

* The Clumsiness/Confusion I think is supposed to stack, but I think those powerful spells would be well to have that limit, and I'd like to be wrong.

* I think each Stone Flesh or Iron Flesh spell doesn't cancel anything, but instead they all can co-exist but only the strongest one has an effect. However it's interesting if you could reduce someone's Iron Flesh protection by casting Stone Flesh on them... if so, it'd almost make you want "Padded Flesh" or "Normal Flesh"... though you'd tend to do better with Remove Thrown Spell.

One I was wondering about reading the new Wizard was if it said you could cast Slippery Floor on your own hex and specify not your own hex, or not. Seems to me you could always opt out of some hexes the way we played, but I don't see that mentioned in the new Wizard. (Maybe that's just a GURPS Magic thing?)
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:03 PM   #5
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
All page references to the recent Wizard Spell Reference Booklet.pdf unless noted.

Magic Fist(p1) Given that the maximum possible MF is 3dice minus 12 you need to roll 18 in order to trip, correct?
Suggestion: If any one of the damage dice rolls a six before adjustments
I'm sorry but where does it say that 3ST is MAX dmg for Magic Fist? Here is the section from the Wizard Spell reference:

Magic Fist (M): A telekinetic blow. Does 1d-2 damage for every ST point used to cast it but never less damage than the ST used. Can also trigger traps or carry out other unsubtle manipulations within line of sight. A Magic Fist that does 6 or more hits before armor/shield protection will also trip its target, making him/her fall down, unless he/she makes a 3-die roll on ST or DX, whichever is higher. See the Trip spell.

You can put as many ST into MF as you want, rolling a number of die equal to the ST put in and subtracting 2 from each die with a minimum of 1 pt dmg per die (new rules)
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:36 PM   #6
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
I'm sorry but where does it say that 3ST is MAX dmg for Magic Fist? Here is the section from the Wizard Spell reference:
For better or worse, it says it in the new section of Missile spells, in the Wizard rules on page 12:
Quote:
There are three missile spells: Magic Fist, Fireball, and Lightning. To cast one of these spells, the wizard announces (1) its target, and (2) the amount of ST (maximum 3) he is using for the spell.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:36 AM   #7
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Thanks Skarg, completely missed that and Steve reiterated that limitation yesterday. THAT changes a LOT of tactics and strategy
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:17 AM   #8
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Yes, with pole charges reduced too, two of the main "how to do lots of damage" methods have been pruned to about 3d.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:20 PM   #9
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

A question about Drop Weapon and Break Weapon spells. These differ from rolling a 17 and 18 in that the target does not loose an action. But shouldn't he?

For example, a fighter is about to strike a wizard. The wizard with a higher DX uses his action to cast Drop Weapon. Now during the same turn, the fighter uses his action to pick up the dropped weapon. By end of turn, they are exactly where they started off. For the ST fatigue all the wizard did was buy one turn delay in getting hit.

On the other hand, no spell is cast, and if the fighter happened to roll a 17 not only has he dropped his weapon, he consumed his action that turn doing so. Next turn he will need to pick it up (not this turn).

So, I am suggesting that Drop Weapon and Break Weapon spells not only have the stated affect, but also cause the target to loose his next combat action.

Just checking to see if anyone agrees with this or is it going to far.

-kind regards
-Alan
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:00 PM   #10
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Misc. Spell questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
A question about Drop Weapon and Break Weapon spells. These differ from rolling a 17 and 18 in that the target does not loose an action. But shouldn't he?

For example, a fighter is about to strike a wizard. The wizard with a higher DX uses his action to cast Drop Weapon. Now during the same turn, the fighter uses his action to pick up the dropped weapon. By end of turn, they are exactly where they started off. For the ST fatigue all the wizard did was buy one turn delay in getting hit.

On the other hand, no spell is cast, and if the fighter happened to roll a 17 not only has he dropped his weapon, he consumed his action that turn doing so. Next turn he will need to pick it up (not this turn).

So, I am suggesting that Drop Weapon and Break Weapon spells not only have the stated affect, but also cause the target to loose his next combat action.

Just checking to see if anyone agrees with this or is it going to far.
Those spells are not supposed to make the target use an action as well. If you'd like them to, then as GM (or with your opponent's agreement) you could have a variant of the spell that does do that, though consider it will tend to only impact people of lower adjDX than the caster. I might suggest a 3/IQ save or be distracted/confused by the interference into losing your action.

I agree that Drop Weapon isn't very effective at saving you from an adjacent warrior if the target hasn't acted yet and just picks it up. It's odd/interesting that if you are slower or wait for them to act (not good if you want to avoid them killing you...), they would end up unarmed during movement (your GM might let you disengage or at least only get bunched if you ignored engagement) and have to take the next turn to pick up the weapon. For an engaged person, at least that option is only allowed if the figure didn't move at all that turn.

Another fix could be to have Drop Weapon send the weapon away at least one hex (maybe 1d or 1d/2 hexes) in a random direction. That'd prevent an engaged victim from using an unused action to immediately pick it back up.
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