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Old 10-11-2018, 09:54 AM   #41
platimus
 
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I agree. And while I also think 60 points is probably higher than should be reasonably possible for a player character to achieve, a top end from 45 to 51 points should absolutely be viable. As written, however, the current advancement rules are a serious barrier to this level of play.
I almost posted earlier to say I agree with Lars - I prefer the new experience rules - but the costs need some tweaking. My thinking on the 'but' clause pretty much agreed with yours. 48 should be obtainable but difficult/time-consuming.

I was also going to say that post that an error corrected, update layout/type-setting reprint of the original rules would have been hunky-dory with me as well. I've commented in another thread that the IQ-slots system was weird (and still is) to me but that doesn't mean I hate it. It was well done. But I prefer the XP-buy system for talents/spells. Again, the XP costs of stats (and possibly talents/spells) DO need some tweaking.

Last edited by platimus; 10-11-2018 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:25 AM   #42
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

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Assuming a 30 year adventuring career at 50 XP and 1% mortality per month.
Year 1: 600 XPs gives 35th Att 200 XP change, 89% survival.
Year 2: Another 600 XPs gives 37th Att, 79% survival.
Year 3: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 100XP change, 70% survival.
Year 4: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 200XP change, 62% survival.
Year 5: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 300XP change, 55% survival.
Year 6: Another 600 XPs gives one skill slot 400XP change, 48% survival.
Year 7: Another 600 XPs saved up for 1000XP change, 43% survival.
Year 8: Another 600 XPs gives 38th Att, 38% survival.
Years 9 to 14 gain 6 skill slots, 18% survival.
Years 15 and 16 gain two more skill slots and 200XP change, 15% survival.
Years 17 to 21 gives 39th Att, 8% survival. (Character is at starting IQ plus 12 skill slots.)
...
At 600 XP per year, if every talent/spell point can only be earned during play with 500 XP, then every point you can stand to put into IQ as a starting character will put you almost one year ahead of this curve (at least, in years where you would otherwise buy talents with XP). e.g. You could be 38 points in year 4 rather than year 8 if you already got your talents/spells for free during character creation.

The years also may be divided down by groups that meet more often and/or get given more XP per meeting.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:46 AM   #43
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

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The years also may be divided down by groups that meet more often and/or get given more XP per meeting.
My calculation is in game years. Real years should go by about four times as fast.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:49 PM   #44
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Ive bought into the logic behind the ~40 point cap (and really you would be better off stopping stat advancement around 38): A score of 16 nearly saturates the 'value' you get out of a stat, and 20 clearly gets you to effective maximum useful value. So, a character with 48 points has probably distributed them pretty evenly across all three stats (as this is going to provide maximum value per point assigned). Therefore, every 48 point character is going to be something like 16-16-16. So, everyone is basically the same and basically perfect at everything. I don't find this sort of play very interesting.

A 40 point limit is a very different situation. You still have the drive to get one of your stats to 16 or so, which leaves your other two averaging 12 each - meaning you will often be out classed at either one. Or maybe you are 16 in two stats and take an 8 on the third - meaning you spent your adventuring career truly deficient, almost handicapped, at one of the three spheres of human capacity. And what if you reach for the stars and want a 20 or 22 in one stat (super genius wizard, most dexterous thief in the world, a fighter like The Mountain)? That's cool, and achievable, but leaves you with an average score of 10 or 9 in the other two stats. You are paying a price for that singular gift. Very different trade offs; very different sorts of characters that interact with each other in a wide variety of ways. Much more interesting game.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

Mana had a chance to give us the traditional squishy quadratic wizard, but the cost is way too high.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:45 PM   #46
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Ive bought into the logic behind the ~40 point cap (and really you would be better off stopping stat advancement around 38): A score of 16 nearly saturates the 'value' you get out of a stat, and 20 clearly gets you to effective maximum useful value. So, a character with 48 points has probably distributed them pretty evenly across all three stats (as this is going to provide maximum value per point assigned). Therefore, every 48 point character is going to be something like 16-16-16. So, everyone is basically the same and basically perfect at everything. I don't find this sort of play very interesting.

A 40 point limit is a very different situation. You still have the drive to get one of your stats to 16 or so, which leaves your other two averaging 12 each - meaning you will often be out classed at either one. Or maybe you are 16 in two stats and take an 8 on the third - meaning you spent your adventuring career truly deficient, almost handicapped, at one of the three spheres of human capacity. And what if you reach for the stars and want a 20 or 22 in one stat (super genius wizard, most dexterous thief in the world, a fighter like The Mountain)? That's cool, and achievable, but leaves you with an average score of 10 or 9 in the other two stats. You are paying a price for that singular gift. Very different trade offs; very different sorts of characters that interact with each other in a wide variety of ways. Much more interesting game.
I suppose if you are only interested in adventures that pit you against humans, orcs and the occasional ogre, 40 points is plenty. I want my players to face off against demons and dragons eventually, however.

Stats don't define the characters, players do that by making choices.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:48 PM   #47
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

Conan the Chemist: ITL page 146 lists no ill effects from quaffing Increase ST potions all the time.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:10 PM   #48
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

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Conan the Chemist: ITL page 146 lists no ill effects from quaffing Increase ST potions all the time.
I think the ill effects are the $ you lose to make or buy them.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:21 PM   #49
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Ive bought into the logic behind the ~40 point cap (and really you would be better off stopping stat advancement around 38): A score of 16 nearly saturates the 'value' you get out of a stat, and 20 clearly gets you to effective maximum useful value. So, a character with 48 points has probably distributed them pretty evenly across all three stats (as this is going to provide maximum value per point assigned). Therefore, every 48 point character is going to be something like 16-16-16. So, everyone is basically the same and basically perfect at everything. I don't find this sort of play very interesting.

A 40 point limit is a very different situation. You still have the drive to get one of your stats to 16 or so, which leaves your other two averaging 12 each - meaning you will often be out classed at either one. Or maybe you are 16 in two stats and take an 8 on the third - meaning you spent your adventuring career truly deficient, almost handicapped, at one of the three spheres of human capacity. And what if you reach for the stars and want a 20 or 22 in one stat (super genius wizard, most dexterous thief in the world, a fighter like The Mountain)? That's cool, and achievable, but leaves you with an average score of 10 or 9 in the other two stats. You are paying a price for that singular gift. Very different trade offs; very different sorts of characters that interact with each other in a wide variety of ways. Much more interesting game.
Yes, that 16 16 16 is how I chose 48. I did say "obtainable but difficult/time-consuming". This is how difficult I'd like that to be:

Increase / XP cost
1st / 100
2nd / 200
3rd / 300
4th / 400
5th / 600
6th / 800
7th / 1000
8th / 2000
9th / 3000
10th / 4000
11th / 5000
12th / 6000
13th / 7000
14th / 8000
15th / 9000
16th / 10000
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:55 PM   #50
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Default Re: Conan the wizard

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Yes, that 16 16 16 is how I chose 48. I did say "obtainable but difficult/time-consuming". This is how difficult I'd like that to be:

Increase / XP cost
1st / 100
2nd / 200
3rd / 300
4th / 400
5th / 600
6th / 800
7th / 1000
8th / 2000
9th / 3000
10th / 4000
11th / 5000
12th / 6000
13th / 7000
14th / 8000
15th / 9000
16th / 10000
So here's a question that haven't seen addressed among all these XP-related threads... how long should it reasonably take a player to advance to this level?

ITL provides some guidelines that characters could earn anywhere from 25 to 100 XP per game session. Doing a bit of math then (which I really dislike), a player would probably earn 3000-4000 XP playing once every week for a year... or up to around 5000 XP if the GM is really generous. So, while the first few stats can be raised over the course of a few months, it will take years to build up a 'Conan' anything. That seems like an awful long time to me, especially for a game system that was originally designed around a much faster advancement schedule.
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