Black Ops: exactly, HOW many recruits die in training?

[Solomon Draak]

According to the GURPS: Black Ops supplement, one third ( 30% more or less ) of the recruits fail to pass the grueling five-years training regimen.
It's explicitly said in the book that those recruits who try to escape are executed and those who get grievous and permanent injuries that makes them vegetable are euthanasized, but that does not account for a 30%.

At page 34 they talk about drills made mainly with the goal of "weed out the unfit very quickly" ( sic ). But, for what we can read, being weeded out does not means dying during the drill.


So, in short, clearly stated: is the book telling us that the Academy executes almost a third of the recruits?

[Rolando]

I understand it that the weeding drills kills some of the recruits.

Also that those that try to escape and those euthanized are part of the third too.

They don't execute a third of the recruits, a third of the recruits die from different causes, including executions because of desertion attempts.

To know exactly how many die you have to know how many are recruited each year. I imagine a group of 5 to 10 per batch as the log drill needs at least 5 I think.

[Varyon]

Is there no option of failing to pass but surviving? Basically, the "weeding out" drills reliably demonstrate a lot of recruits just don't have what it takes, and they flunk out, staying in normal military service. Relatively-normal, anyway - presumably they have been made aware of secrets that are beyond Top Secret. Or maybe those who can't cut it as field agents go into the support wing of the organization, serving as the haft rather than tip of the spear.

[Fred Brackin]

How many die in training? Probably all of them. The idea of training human beings to fit templates that are at least 3x the points cost of a Navy Seal template is goofy.

If the GM really, really wants to believe in the Black Ops templates as many survive or die as he wants.

[Rolando]

This is a highly cinematic game.

1/3 die, that is all that matter.

2/3's survive to fill the ranks of agents dying in the field or getting desk jobs due to age or injuries.

How many agents make the cut and turn into 700 point characters?
As many as needed for the story the gM is crafting.

Maybe humans are hardier than we tend to believe, at least in Black Ops they are.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Rolando

This is a highly cinematic game.

Maybe humans are hardier than we tend to believe, at least in Black Ops they are.

Though I'd note that as in a lot of highly cinematic fiction, protagonists may go questionably human on you pretty soon. They're all liable to develop cinematic backstories in which they are the half aliens or monsters, descend from divine kings or heroes, or centuries of hidden eugenics programs, are explicitly blessed by gods or demons, were subjected to horrible experiments, returned from an isekai summoning....

It's basically a low level supers campaign, expect the usual origin story tropes to turn up in at least some cases.

[Pursuivant]

Killing 1/3 of highly elite candidates seems excessive, even for MIB. It's bad for morale and a massive waste of potential talent.

While training is lethal enough that every training cycles sees recruit deaths (which would be a huge scandal for any other military or paramilitary formation), it's likely that most "eliminated" recruits are permanently injured or voluntarily quit.

The permanently injured and physically or psychologically deficient are evaluated for their suitability as support personnel or "auxiliaries." Those that make the cut are retrained to support The Company's mission in other ways. Those who represent a potential risk to themselves or others are given suitable "psychological modifications" to render them harmless, which can range from partial amnesia to catatonia.

Alternately, the bulk of recruit deaths occur in the field during advanced training, when recruits are seconded to serving MIB units. Because their deaths aren't publicized and are "invisible" to their fellow recruits, the high level of attrition isn't so shockingly obvious.

[Rolando]

@Pursivant, that may work for your campaign, and it is a solid rationale for a more realistic Black Ops campaign.

For me the 1/3 deaths is part of the mystic of the setting. The 2/3 that make it are not just trained physically but also mentally and emotionally to take those loses and turn them into more power.

These are humans that have more character points than an adult dragon or two. More than your average starting point super hero for a super hero campaign.

This is a larger than life, cinematic, over the top setting.

I like the idea of operatives thinking about those deaths and if they are in the right side, and realizing they are not in the right side of a global conflict but never the less they are in the only place they can save earth from all enemies. So, they push forward. Maybe with more conspiracy thrown in in time the player characters will try to escape or form something better inside.

But most of the descriptions in the book are way over the top to be concerned about dead recruits.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Rolando

@Pursivant, that may work for your campaign, and it is a solid rationale for a more realistic Black Ops campaign.

For me the 1/3 deaths is part of the mystic of the setting. The 2/3 that make it are not just trained physically but also mentally and emotionally to take those loses and turn them into more power.

The scenario you propose makes it likely that those who do complete the training will be permanently scarred in some way. Unless more than 1/3rd of the recruits are being purposefully put into situations they're not expected to make it out of. Or if 1/3rd are clearly not cut out for it in the first place, which begs the question of why they would try out such a large percentage of poor fits?

And if it's so daunting that (almost) everyone is scarred, there will always be some who are too scarred for active duty but not so scarred that they need to be put down.

The 1/3 dies and 2/3 makes it through to active duty split just doesn't make any logical sense.

[Rolando]

It makes as much sense as humans vs everything in sci fi and fantasy... and it is all still a secret by the way.

I mean, the only way this setting make sense is if you look at it with certain googles, cinematic and over the top googles.

The 1/3 deaths is not the most ludicrous part of the book.

The 2/3 is not scarred at all, they made it because they have the mental and emotional endurance to not get terribly scarred.

They are all larger than life characters, and any psychological flaw developed is part of their style or mojo. The macho combat op that is too fond of killing crawlers, the super detached intel op that feels nothing and cares for no one and the obsessive science op that risk everything and everyone to get a sample of a new species have that, but it doesn't make them unfit for the job, on the contrary, those are desired traits.

Just like detectives bypassing all laws and regulations and keeping their job if they catch the bad guy in classic cops tv serials, it doesn't make sense unless you are talking about an action tv series of the era.

P.D.: They were 700 point characters in 3ed, in 4ed they are probably 900+ points characters.