Very Fit and Extra Effort in combat

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Oggsmash

And for fitness being a factor, I dont need a reminder after the 1 year Hiatus I have enjoyed, my whole body aches since starting back training every day this past Saturday.

Pain. It means injury. Over-exertion. GURPs going beyond FP available into -ve points costs HP too. HP take longer to recover than FP. Over-exertion hurts...
Maybe a little too much - would losing 1HP for every batch of -ve FP be more realistic? e.g. FP10 spends 11 FP = -1 FP & -1HP; spend 21 FP = -11 FP and -2 HP?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Kromm

A trained jock with Fit and Breath Control (which in 4e is the totally realistic skill of pacing yourself) can get back 1 FP per minute (1 per 2 minutes with Breath Control, doubled for Fit). Okay, that's more like 10 minutes than 3-6 minutes, but it's the right general order . . . if we're comparing 1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour, etc., 10 minutes comes closest.

Not really, 1 minute would be much closer than 10 minutes, which is why normal FP recovery is off by a factor of 10 at the very least.

When you get spent after giving your all and you need to catch your breath, you just need to spend a few seconds recovering and getting your breath back, maybe half a minute to a minute if you really blew yourself out, never 5 to 10 minutes unless you're a totally out of shape potato and even then you'd probably be talking about someone with serious health issues.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

A trained jock with Fit and Breath Control (which in 4e is the totally realistic skill of pacing yourself) can get back 1 FP per minute (1 per 2 minutes with Breath Control, doubled for Fit). Okay, that's more like 10 minutes than 3-6 minutes, but it's the right general order . . . if we're comparing 1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour, etc., 10 minutes comes closest.

Umm, how was it unrealistic in 3e? It was deemed half-esoteric (which I doubt), but otherwise I don't see what principles it breaks (let's not compare it to Overland Hiking...).

BTW, most people don't (won't) spend all 10 FP in one run/combat, I think... BUT, running out of anaerobic FP in 6 seconds is quite realistic (sprinters don't run at full accel/speed all the time...). And yes, sprinters do try to maintain at least some respectable fitness, despite expending 1FP/turn, because it does help.

The only reason why Extra Effort in combat looks silly is that we don't separate the different energy reserves of the human body... and we can't afford that, so we have to put up with fighters passing out if their players are innumerate. ;)

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Not really, 1 minute would be much closer than 10 minutes, which is why normal FP recovery is off by a factor of 10 at the very least.

When you get spent after giving your all and you need to catch your breath, you just need to spend a few seconds recovering and getting your breath back, maybe half a minute to a minute if you really blew yourself out, never 5 to 10 minutes unless you're a totally out of shape potato and even then you'd probably be talking about someone with serious health issues.

Wait, are we talking about WC-/Olympic-scale Extra Effort? That's certainly more than 1 minute to recover fully. And 2-3 minutes is the typical full rest (i.e. dropping heart rate to around 90bpm) period for 'generic' runs of 200yds (not for sprint-specialized athletes).

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Wait, are we talking about WC-/Olympic-scale Extra Effort? That's certainly more than 1 minute to recover fully. And 2-3 minutes is the typical full rest (i.e. dropping heart rate to around 90bpm) period for 'generic' runs of 200yds (not for sprint-specialized athletes).

Right, but in Gurps you only recover 1 FP every 10 minutes, or 1 FP every 2 minutes if you have Fit and Breath Control like Kromm said, while in reality even sprint-specialized athletes who are the clearest case of blowing it all in one spurt are able to walk around after taking a few seconds to catch their breath, and they're quite capable of jogging around stadiums within a minute of having done all that.

This doesn't include the people who push themselves into doing physical damage to themselves since they can end up in the hospital for days, which is clearly HP loss beyond simple FP loss.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Right, but in Gurps you only recover 1 FP every 10 minutes, or 1 FP every 2 minutes if you have Fit and Breath Control like Kromm said, while in reality even sprint-specialized athletes who are the clearest case of blowing it all in one spurt are able to walk around after taking a few seconds to catch their breath, and they're quite capable of jogging around stadiums within a minute of having done all that.

This doesn't include the people who push themselves into doing physical damage to themselves since they can end up in the hospital for days, which is clearly HP loss beyond simple FP loss.

Sprinters, I think, take themselves down to 1/3 FP. OTOH, marathon runners do burn a few HP on high-level events. Most recover in a week, IIRC.

[Luther]

Guys please stop this non-sense. There are different types of fuels in our body, and each is consumed and replenished at different rates. Realistic rules should address all that, but frankly it seems a bit too much, at least for the Basic Set.

GURPS uses the middle ground, which doesn't work very well for high intensity short bursts, or long term fatigue. To correct somewhat the latter the system adds special rules on top of the regular FP mechanics (sleep, food and water, heat, cold, etc.).

Let's face it, it's a compromise, and usually is good enough to keep players thinking about fatigue. The flavor is there, the real world number not yet. The most problematic area is Extra Effort, if you want a realistic treatment I suggest to ignore the rules in the text, search the forums, and come up with your own specialized mechanic.

Beware, previous discussions proved it's not an easy task.