[Basic] Skill of the week: Fortune-Telling

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Not

Which TL are we talking about here?

Fair point. It applies at TL6+ for sure, not sure about 4-5.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Except that almost everyone with any knowledge of Astronomy utterly refuses to have anything at all to do with astrologers.

Originally Posted by Not

Which TL are we talking about here?

Originally Posted by johndallman

Fair point. It applies at TL6+ for sure, not sure about 4-5.

At earlier TLs, Astronomy (Observational) and Fortune-Telling (Astrology) were often complementary and learned at the same time, with the focus of the Astrology skill on the twelve signs of the Zodiac and the seven classical planets (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn). That was pretty standard through TL2 in the West, and from what little I've learned of the East it carried into TL4 and maybe even TL5. TL3 in the West saw the transition from Astrology being a respected "science" (though they didn't call it that) to "no real Christian would follow this" and the separation of Astronomy and Astrology as different fields.

For TL4 through 6, the bulk of the astrology type fortune-tellers still learned Astronomy (Observational), but the focus shifted more to the more general Fortune-Teller we see today.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Except that almost everyone with any knowledge of Astronomy utterly refuses to have anything at all to do with astrologers.

Modern scientific astronomers revile astrology, but that doesn't change what the technical side of astrology consists of, which is what is relevant to defining a GURPS skill.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Modern scientific astronomers revile astrology, but that doesn't change what the technical side of astrology consists of, which is what is relevant to defining a GURPS skill.

That argument also leads you to the conclusion that Navigation (Sea) is Astronomy.

[Michele]

A statted example:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=76348

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Really this skill should not exist in mundane form.

Cold Reading should be a skill of its own or a technique of Interrogation, Body Language, Intel Analysis, or Detect Lies.

Doing readings for suckers should use Performance. (And the fairly special case of Astrology involves use of an easy specialization of Astronomy).

I can see a strong case for cold reading as its own skill. The skills it comes closest to are body language and acting, but in each case that's a little of a stretch. Empathy should definitely apply to such a skill.

Yeah, the additional trappings would be performance.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Modern scientific astronomers revile astrology, but that doesn't change what the technical side of astrology consists of, which is what is relevant to defining a GURPS skill.

I would not say the revile it. My astronomy professor had no such pastion about it it was just part of the history of the path of discovery. The body of knowledge the science grew out of. Just like Chemistry has its roots in Alchemy.

He even used it to help teach about pregression of the stars, what the Age of Aquariuses really means, and that there are currently 13 consulations in the zodiac.

Aries (The Ram) 18 April to 13 May
Taurus (The Bull) 13 May to 21 June
Gemini (The Twins) 21 June to 20 July
Cancer (The Crab) 20 July to 10 August
Leo (The Lion) 10 August to 16 September
Virgo (The Virgin) 16 September to 30 October
Libra (The Scales) 30 October to 23 November
Scorpio (The Scorpion) 23 to 29 November
Ophiuchus (The Serpent Bearer) 29 November to 18 December
Sagittarius (The Archer / Centaur) 18 December to 20 January
Capricorn (The Sea-goat) 20 January to 16 February
Aquarius (The Water Bearer) 16 February to 11 March
Pisces (The Fish) 11 March to 18 April

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by johndallman

That argument also leads you to the conclusion that Navigation (Sea) is Astronomy.

Not 'is'. Overlaps.

A part of the knowledge included in Astronomy would allow you to plot a course of travel by the stars, which might be compared to a posited subspecialization of Navigation (e.g. Navigation (Plotting)).

I would assume that the full skill of Navigation would include matters such as correcting for conditions and reading technical maps that go beyond plotting.

The technical part of astrology might be equivalent to Astronomy (Sideareal Calculations), but won't touch on a vastly broader amount of knowledge comprising the field of Astronomy.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I don't think I've ever had a character with this skill. My tastes as a GM are more towards the practical and effective: when I've used NPCs with abilities of questionable validity in this style, the players haven't responded much.

What have you done with Fortune-Telling?

I think what you say here about your style as a GM explains why you've not had a character with the skill. You describe your priorities as practical and effective. That will color what skills are considered valid or useful.

I think of my priorities as being conceptual, well rounded, and representation of small details. I don't see real people's totality as being about practicality and effectiveness. I don't see people in real life as being tailored for efficiency. Basically, I don't see real people as niches or archetypes, and barring a goofy one-shot no one is really invested that much in, I don't want to see characters that have prioritized practicality and effectiveness over a sense of embodying the messy inefficiency of reality at my table.

I spent points on my THS single dad ex-cop PC to make him Mars adapted even though I never expected that to ever come up in play as a practical, effective thing. And we never did go to Mars. So he never "used" it. But it was an important part of his character conceptualization. It represented a time when this very conservative, risk-averse character was a lot less risk-averse. It was a part of him who didn't want to let go of the possibility of being that guy again. It was also a reminder of the death of his wife. It effected his characterization and...it was really important for the character. Just as important as his PS: Parenting skill.

I design my characters and encourage my players to design characters around a concept and then fully realize the concept based on characterization rather than practical or effective. The result of this is that not only do I design characters who would have skills others might never take, but my players end up doing the same. When I made a character who was a fortune teller...of course I took that skill. It is part of the concept! She used it to get reads on people all the time. She used it to get access to powerful people who believed in Tarot. She used it to solve some tarot based puzzles. She used it to spot imposters. It was great! But most importantly it represented part of who that character was as a person.

There are different styles of play. My style of play/GMing is skill heavy and encourages the use of a lot of what other people might consider "useless" skills. It isn't for everyone, but my mix of method actor/simulationism results in Fortune Telling being a valid skill choice and me never having to worry about niche protection.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

He even used it to help teach about pregression of the stars, what the Age of Aquariuses really means, and that there are currently 13 consulations in the zodiac.

Note that the reason there are 13 constellations in the Zodiac is that the constellation boundaries were redefined. If you actually draw pictures around the stars, they don't cover it all. There will be sections of the sky, and hence dates in the year unless you make a special effort to ensure the pictures touch along the ecliptic, that are outside any of the pictures and hence in no constellation at all.

If you are going to use the constellation names to organize data, or to generate names for new things nobody could see when the pictures were drawn, you can't have that, you need the entire sky to be in some constellation or other, so you can't use those picture boundaries.